Large Scale Central

BBT compendium underway

Modeling Motive Power
#1

Well, I’m embarking on another “set” of information that I have not found on the Internet.

TOC and I are working on documenting as much of Barry Olsen’s BBT drives, and there are some interesting variations and implementations. I never knew he did a Mikado, for example.

After all the abuse from trying on the heavyweight thread, all I will say is you can go to my site and see it in progress, I won’t announce it again, and won’t post the link again.

(and I sure as hell won’t post pictures inviting comments after all the abuse).

https://elmassian.com/index.php/large-scale-train-main-page/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/bachmann-motive-power/big-hauler/14-trains/motive-power/798-barry-s-big-trains

By the way, if you do go to my site, at the bottom of every page is a list of the last 10 pages that have been edited. I update information all the time, but this makes an easy way to see what’s new.

As I said, the BBT page is in it’s infancy, but will be growing. Comments on my site are welcome, but not here on this forum, again from the recent abuse, just email me.

Greg

#2

It’s been years, but I think I have a BBT drive in one of my Bachmann out side frame 2-8-0’s. It is absolutely a great runner.

In my Bachmann K 27 is someone else’s drive from back east and I have forgotten whom I got it from.

Perhaps you could jog my memory, Greg.

#3

I do remember that there was a guy who made an additional gearbox for the K27’s but this thread is on BBT stuff, if I remember the K-27 guy, I will let you know.

greg

#4

Greg, His name is Rodney Edington, located in Leavenworth, KS. I have one of his auxiliary gearboxes in my K27 and it works well. Noisy as all get out when I first installed it, but it has quieted down nicely. I hunted him down a while back and he is no longer in Large Scale and has not interest in making any more of the drives.

#5

Rodney’s wife had considerable health issues a few years back and he has never really got back after that.

#6

The equalized front axle on the BBT chassis was a “version 2” kind of thing. His early drives had a horizontally-mounted motor and rigid driver axles. Because his flanges were turned down from typical large scale flanges, the rigid-framed locos were less than ideal for rough track. (I had one which I used to align my track in the Spring. If it could go around without derailing, I knew I was good.)

Barry did a number of custom drives for folks. I had him do a C-19 chassis for my EBT #7 project:

Later,

K

#7

I thought Rodney passed away ?

#8

Kevin, your post does indeed illustrate why I am working with TOC to document the BBT drives…

Some of your information is correct for some of the times, but Barry was known for the stainless steel tires, not turned down wheelsets. Yes they existed, normally as exceptions as was the 2-8-0, the mikado and your C-19.

I’ve started with the big hauler and his “standard” implementation, ss tires, ss rods, ball bearings, and the special suspension on the lead axle. Then the variants on the 4-6-0 and then will get into the consolidations and the mikados.

Greg

#9

Greg Elmassian said:

Well, I’m embarking on another “set” of information that I have not found on the Internet.

TOC and I are working on documenting as much of Barry Olsen’s BBT drives, and there are some interesting variations and implementations. I never knew he did a Mikado, for example.

After all the abuse from trying on the heavyweight thread, all I will say is you can go to my site and see it in progress, I won’t announce it again, and won’t post the link again.

(and I sure as hell won’t post pictures inviting comments after all the abuse).

https://elmassian.com/index.php/large-scale-train-main-page/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/bachmann-motive-power/big-hauler/14-trains/motive-power/798-barry-s-big-trains

By the way, if you do go to my site, at the bottom of every page is a list of the last 10 pages that have been edited. I update information all the time, but this makes an easy way to see what’s new.

As I said, the BBT page is in it’s infancy, but will be growing. Comments on my site are welcome, but not here on this forum, again from the recent abuse, just email me.

Greg

Email sent

#10

Deleted Member said:

I thought Rodney passed away ?

No, he is doing OK.

#11

He offered me a drive a few years ago when I was building (cough) a steam loco. Should have respectfully taken him up on the offer but I declined like the idiot I am.

#12

Sorry, Greg, I wasn’t as clear as I could have been. I didn’t mean to imply Barry turned down the Bachmann drivers, just that his wheels had finer flanges.

Later,

K

#13

Ok, I get you, that I understand, the drivers of choice were apparently from Palacina Productions

If anyone has any documents scanned on them that would be helpful.

Greg

#14

I think that I have, but cant prove, a HLW 4-4-0 that was redone by Barry. At least thats what I understood when I bought it from a club member.

#15

Normally the tipoff would be an aluminum extrusion used for the chassis, but interesting. Does it appear to have stock drivers?

Greg

#16

Followup to Kevin:

It’s pretty dark in your picture, (I saw it first outside), but now indoors I see your chassis has the “smiley” drivers (the counterweights look like a smile, with squared off ends).

What I understand is he intended to make what you have available as a regular product, but it did not happen. Your drivers are what he used for his other 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 conversions.

Did you build this up Kevin? Do you have a picture you can share?

Below is a 2-8-0 conversion with the same BBT-designed drivers.

#17

I do know on the BBT order form that I have, the option to use the Bachmann drives is on the form. Barry would turn them down a bit to re-contour them and true them up.

#18

I did a LOT of R&D work WITH Barry. On flanges and profiles, he used Watkin’s Sierra Valley profile, and it worked well.

Barry wanted to have a C-16 or something “kit”. He built a lot of bits, but I don’t think he ever got it to market. I have a box of bits he sent me to see.

Bulkheads, mounts, spacers. The 1-3/4" cast brass wheels were a development to get away from the Palacinas, which while they worked well (I have at least two 2-8-0’s with Palacinas) the spoke count was wrong. Too few for standard gauge, too many for narrow gauge…but there are always prototypes to disprove the assertion.

The masters were made with the smiling clown counterweights like the C16, for the specific project, but used exclusively on the 2-8-0 and Mikado.

See Greg’s site for photos of Palacina, cast brass (with stainless) and 2" drivers on 2-8-0’s and Mikado.

Mikado was another experiment, not too many wanted to do that.

He did 4-wheel Trolley chassis, using Shay motors and gears (all from me), Lionel Atlantics (which he hated), Hartlands, even LGB. He was proud of his Aristo U-25B.

Custom work was his passion, so you could get about anything from him. Greg’s site is mostly for cataloged stuff. You have something special, take photos, send them to Greg.

If we don’t document the history, it’s gone.

K-27’s. The design of the internals is really bad for doing anything but what Kader wanted. Look at the diameter of the main axles and you’ll see.

The spring-loaded inner axles was another. But: Barry made exactly two K-27 gearboxes, in roughly 30:1, with a Pittman. Lots of cutting and filing, no gearheads. I have both, one running engine (RCS, NiMH, Sierra) and another in pieces, as initially we locked 1&4 to keep the nose from hanging over the edge on climbing curves, but Bachmann powers #3.

The installation of this gearbox locks #3, so we locked 2, freed up 1&4, and quickly determined on this railroad it was a disaster. Would not track (even if someone who wants to help tells you otherwise). So we trim out to put #4 as gear axle, locking 1, floating 2&3.

This k runs well here, and is a favorite of several operators to run.

The only real issues we have had with BBT drives is the sweet spot. The drive axles have a flat for the setscrew. Often it was not “wide” enough, and to compound the problem, he did not work the setscrew and axle back and forth to find that sweet spot where the screw seated snugly.Got to the point I took every new chassis for delivery apart to reset and if necessary widen the flat spot.

TOC

#19

David Maynard said:

I do know on the BBT order form that I have, the option to use the Bachmann drives is on the form. Barry would turn them down a bit to re-contour them and true them up.

He did several things. Cut the drivers down a bit, and recontoured to SV profiles.

If you put a Bach 4-6-0 on level track and look at the gap between #2 driver and the track, you will see a substantial gap. If you put a BBT 4-6-0 on the same track, you will see about half that gap.

Now, more data.

On a non-sprung, non-equalized chassis, that gap is needed.

Local customer wanted a BBT 4-6-0 drive, then complained about the #2 gap.

Brought him to the shop, showed him a stock 4-6-0 gap and his.

Not good enough.

Customer is always right…right?

So, a call to Barry, he machined up six new drivers, with all the same OD.

Put them on, free, explained next time costs.

He took it home, and it would not stay on the track.

Rocked on #2, allowed #1 to climb off the rails.

Next one cost him.

#20

The reason most of the later BBT drives are vertical motor, is that the horizontal motor chassis were a PITA. Gear mesh was accomplished with various thickness brass shims between motor mount and chassis (I still have a bag of said shims).

I don’t know if I have any horizontal motor chassis any more, but I might.

Have to tear down a couple of Palacina driver equipped locos.

Biggest customer created issues was said customers trying to disassemble by removing Phillips head counter sunk stainless screws from underneath. Everything fell apart inside, spacers fell out, required chassis removal and re-fabricating missing spacers to get it back running.

TOC