Large Scale Central

Battle of Midway, by John Ford

General Discussion
#1

I don’t know if this counts as propaganda, or not, though I suppose that some will say that it does. Henry Fonda does the voice over and says at the beginning, “There is a Jap behind every cloud.” There is a railroad tie in, one of the crew of a B-17 spent some time on the Rock Island Road as an engineer.

As I remember the story, John Ford joined the Navy as a Commander (O5) and was serendipitously on Midway Island, on his way to somewhere else, when the attack started.

Here is part two of the short film.

#2

Steve,
What railroad tie in does the Yorktown, which was lost at the battle of the Coral Sea have? I may be in error because it could have been the Lexington which was also lost in the same battle. Being a dogface, my Naval History is a little shaky. Will have to go and re read Adm. Morrison’s two volume “Two Ocean War” and btw he was a patient of mine when stationed at the five sided puzzle palace in 72-76. Hell of a guy. Loved his history like me.
N

#3

Steve,
soul stirring stuff and definately propaganda. It makes you want to stand, face the flag and salute.

#4

Noel.

Lexington was lost at Coral Sea.

The Yorktown was severely damaged at Coral Sea and the Japanese assumed that it was out of action. Repaired in record time it arrived off Midway in time for the battle giving the US 3 carriers to the Japanese 6. Often the Japanese force is portrayed as having only 4 carriers but that’s not counting 2 light carriers, the Zuiho and one other.

As to the film you have to place it in the context of the time. It was meant to encourage the populace in the US that the war was turning. Also the “jap behind every cloud” comment makes statement to the fact that we didn’t know then what was known much later; fog of war.

The B-17’s so heroically displayed were next to useless for naval warfare being unable to hit moving targets such as ships except in movies. Further while in theory the heavy armament in the bombers was supposed to give good defense against fighters it soon became apparent in Europe that losses would be exceedingly heavy without fighter escort. The bombers flying in combat boxes were indeed formidable targets but still no match on their own for Me109’s or FW-190’s. I don’t think they would have faired much better against the Zero.

#5

Richard,
Thanks for pointing out where the Lady Lex was lost. Told you I am a bit fuzzy on Naval History. Now to the tie in with railroads and the Yorktown. When repaired after the Coral Sea battle, her flight deck was reinforced with rails that came from…The ORGINAL UP line at Promontory Point which were laid in 186? (have to look it up again) The rails were removed from Promontory Point in the early 40’s and were on hand in the repair yard where the Yorktown was. They needed I beams for the repair. They grabbed the rails, welded them in place, laid the flight deck and she went to sea with a very important part of American Railroading history. They are still in place to this day on the bottom of the Pacific. May the good Lord give those brave men who went down with her eternal rest and peace.
Noel

#6
Richard Smith said:
The Yorktown was severely damaged at Coral Sea and the Japanese assumed that it was out of action. Repaired in record time it arrived off Midway in time for the battle giving the US 3 carriers to the Japanese 6. Often the Japanese force is portrayed as having only 4 carriers but that's not counting 2 light carriers, the Zuiho and one other.
I had to break out my old reference book on this. It says:

At Midway - The Japanese outnumbered the U.S. with eight carriers, eleven battleships, eighteen cruisers, and sixty-five destroyers to the U.S.'s three carriers, no battleships, eight cruiser, and fifteen destroyers. The Japanese lost the carriers Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, and Soryu while the U.S. lost the Yorktown.

It also states that Midway marked the first defeat for the Japanese navy since 1592 (at the hands of Koreans).

Jon.

#7
Noel Crawford said:
Richard, Thanks for pointing out where the Lady Lex was lost. Told you I am a bit fuzzy on Naval History. Now to the tie in with railroads and the Yorktown. When repaired after the Coral Sea battle, her flight deck was reinforced with rails that came from........The ORGINAL UP line at Promontory Point which were laid in 186? (have to look it up again) The rails were removed from Promontory Point in the early 40's and were on hand in the repair yard where the Yorktown was. They needed I beams for the repair. They grabbed the rails, welded them in place, laid the flight deck and she went to sea with a very important part of American Railroading history. They are still in place to this day on the bottom of the Pacific. May the good Lord give those brave men who went down with her eternal rest and peace. Noel
That's really interesting about the rails. I hadn't heard that before. Incidentally the rails were joined at Promontary in 1869.
#8
Jon Foster said:
Richard Smith said:
The Yorktown was severely damaged at Coral Sea and the Japanese assumed that it was out of action. Repaired in record time it arrived off Midway in time for the battle giving the US 3 carriers to the Japanese 6. Often the Japanese force is portrayed as having only 4 carriers but that's not counting 2 light carriers, the Zuiho and one other.
I had to break out my old reference book on this. It says:

At Midway - The Japanese outnumbered the U.S. with eight carriers, eleven battleships, eighteen cruisers, and sixty-five destroyers to the U.S.'s three carriers, no battleships, eight cruiser, and fifteen destroyers. The Japanese lost the carriers Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, and Soryu while the U.S. lost the Yorktown.

It also states that Midway marked the first defeat for the Japanese navy since 1592 (at the hands of Koreans).

Jon.


Jon,

Thanks for the correction. I assume the other two carriers were also light carriers possibly to provide air support for the landing troops.

#9

I don’t about the other two carriers. It didn’t list the names.

My dad would be ashamed of me now. Having to look this stuff up and not knowing it by heart would kill him…

Jon.

#10

I hadn’t heard about the rails, either. Cool!

The Japanese Light Carriers were Tone and Chikuma

#11
Steve Featherkile said:
I hadn't heard about the rails, either. Cool!

The Japanese Light Carriers were Tone and Chikuma


Okay, if I remember right those two ships (Chikuma at least) were actually heavy or light cruisers with small decks added to their sterns and not really full fledged carriers. Their aircraft were very limited in number and used primarily for scout planes. I’d have to look them up to give particulars so if it’s of interest to anyone let me know and I’ll check on them.

Additionally most of the Japanese capital ships carried one or two float planes also used for scout missions. Early on a number of U.S. battleships carried float planes but by Midway the scouting was done mostly with individual Dauntless dive bombers from the carriers. Of course Midway being an island hangered a number of PBY’s for scouting there.