Ok I putting a list together of what I would need to convert my Connie over to battery power. I’m already using a qsi decoder so I was going to go the Gwire route with the NCE Procab. I’m getting lost on the batteries. How many volts should I be looking at, and I’m clueless when it comes to the mah rating? Does this number equate to what my run time would be? Bigger number more track time? I’d like to squeeze everything in the tender and avoid a trailing car if possible. Thanks
Peter,
A 14.4 Li-ion, 4000 Mah, will run that for hours.
4000 Mah = 4 Amps. 4400 Mah = 4.4 Amps and so on.
Li-ions are small and lightweight.
But spendy and require a special charger.
A 14.4 Nihm 12 cell brick at 4400 Mah will perform as above, however much larger pack. Better use is in a trailing car.
And it’s much cheaper.
That’s what I use.
Ok that helps. At least I have a better idea on what to look for. Maybe the trailing car isnt a bad idea, it would make converting my shay alot easier down the road. Now once the budget committee approves the funds the fun can begin.
Peter, Here is my first RC/Battery conversion completed last weekend.You can find more under the post “Drawn to the Darkside”. Ralph I was recently drawn over to the Dark Side when the notorious Bruce Chandler enticed me with an RCS system…at a price I couldn’t refuse. As there was no budget for this project, I went on a search for the cheapest batteries I could find. When talking batteries, cheap usually means big. So I found this 14.4V 3800mAh NiMH Battery Pack for the IRobot Vacuum Cleaner. http://www.all-battery.com/144v3800mahnimhbatterypackforirobotvacuumcleaner-roomba4905.aspx For now I mounted the battery pack in the tender. The battery pack can replace the weight in the Annie and I may go that route if testing today proves the tender too heavy. Here it is with the components mounted before wiring everything up. I turned this mess into a nice, neat job but forgot to take a picture.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/darkside001Med.jpg)
Not wanting to wait for plugs to be shipped, I used computer plugs to connect the tender and engine. Not having a suitable plug handy for the charging side, I decided to use charging posts. I had on/off switch I could have used, but decided to go with a DPDT switch, which I mounted in the 9v battery compartment. I picked up the switch at Rat Shack, but couldn’t find any suitable connectors there 
This engine is an early Christmas Annie I had picked up from Cale. There was no working light in the tender, so I installed one. Still need to paint the light.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/darkside006Med.jpg)
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/darkside008Med.jpg)
Looks good. I’ve seen those roomba packs too and for their price seem like a viable option, but what do use to charge them. If all that fits in an Annie tender I should have no problem fitting it into the connies. Thanks guys.
Peter, I “believe” the Tender of the Annie is a good deal larger than the Connie…some one may have the facts or a comparo shot? I do know the American tender is smaller than the Annie! I used 2 7.2v RC Car packs (from TOC) when I converted my Annie. Along with a RCS Elite, Sierra Sound and required circuitry it all fit with a little room to spare! I also purchased a MAHA smart charger from TOC that will work with most batteries! All of my locos use the same charging plug (that doubles as a trail car plug for extended run time). Here is a shot of my first install:
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/calenelson/Install/finishedtender.jpg)
and a link to a PDF with photos from Tony & RCS: http://www.beltrol-rc.com/PDF/Acessories/Installation-kits/TEN-LOC.pdf cale after reviewing the PDF from Tony I believe it shows install in a Connie Tender?
You’re not going to need more than 14 volts in the 2-8-0, so either 14.4 volts worth of NiMH (12 cells) or 14.8 volts worth of Li-Ion (4 cells) will do the trick. Space in the 2-8-0 tender isn’t an issue, even if you put a killer speaker inside. I’ve got a 4" speaker in mine that takes up the middle of the tender, and still have plenty of room behind it for either 12 AA-sized NiMH batteries or a Li-Ion pack. All the electronics fit neatly forward of the speaker.
In terms of run time on the 2-8-0, figure around 1 to 2 times the amp/hour rating of the batteries, so a 2000 milliamp Hours (mAh) battery will give you between 2 and 4 hours run time, depending on load, speed, etc. I found that to be similar both with the stock motor and Barry’s motor. I run short trains on fairly mild grades, and get between 3 and 4 hours run on a 2600mAh pack. Most of our trains will give similar service. They tend to draw between .5 and 1 amp, unless you’re pulling heavy trains and/or driving multiple motors. The battery chemistry has little effect on how long the pack lasts at a given capacity. (i.e., a 2000 mAh Li-Ion pack will last about the same as a 2000 mAh NiMH pack.)
As for which to choose, there are some considerations.
NiMH - Cheap, cells easily purchased at your regular trips to Wal-Mart or wherever. Twelve AA batteries in a holder (I used an 8-cell and 4-cell holder from Radio Shack) takes up 4" x 2.5" x 1.25" (12.5 cubic inches) and weighs 11.5 oz. If you can remove the batteries, you can charge them in any number of chargers, from the slow chargers that come with many battery sets to larger multi-cell chargers that charge individual cells. You can also make your own packs and charge them as 2 packs of 6 cells for on-board installations or even 1 pack of 12 with the appropriate charger. The downside is twofold - first, it’s been reported that discharging the AA cells at more than 1/2 amp will shorten the number of charge/discharge cycles you’ll get from the batteries. Quite frankly, I found other factors (discharging them down to near zero in other non-train devices such as baby monitors, cameras, etc.) went a lot further to kill cells prematurely than pulling heavy current from them, so I don’t see that as a factor. On the other hand, discharging them down to near zero on your train will have the same effect on cell life. In a pack, one bad cell means the pack is bad and won’t charge. The advantage of charging cells individually is that you can weed out the bad cells easily and replace them. Second, and perhaps more importantly, the NiMH batteries self-discharge just sitting around, so you’ll need to charge them up prior to a run. There’s a new NiMH chemistry on the market that’s called “Hybrid” technology or some such that I’ve heard people say eliminates that problem; they hold their charge when sitting idle for weeks/months at a time. They do cost more than the “regular” NiMH cells, but capacities are the same. I never used them, so I can’t speak to their performance firsthand.
Li-Ion - A bit more expensive, but when you compare pre-made packs of NiMH batteries (not individual cells) somewhat comparable for similar capacities. Excellent long-term storage. Charge them, run periodically, and the batteries hold their charge between runs for months at a time. The definite winner in the size/weight race. A 14.8 volt, 2600 mAh pack is 3" x 3" x .75" (6.75 cubic inches) and weighs 7 ounces. They do require a specific charger, but you can get them for $25 when you order your batteries. The biggest caveat with Li-Ion batteries is that they don’t like to be overcharged or overdischarged. Most pre-made Li-Ion packs come with a PC board designed to prevent either from happening. (Don’t buy one without it.) When the voltage drops below a certain “safe” threshold, the PC board just shuts the pack off. That’s it, you’re done, back to the charger. When charging the battery, the PC board keeps track of the voltage, and stops the charge once it hits a certain level. It will then not let the battery take an additional charge until the battery’s been discharged. (That could be a charger thing; I just know that when I pull a charged battery off the charger and plug it back in, it won’t charge it until after I run the loco for an hour or so to drain off some energy.) If you’re going to build your own packs (you can buy cells individually) you must buy the PC board to go with it. (They range from $2 - $10 or so.)
The Li-Ion packs I use sell for around $40 each. By comparison, the rechargable NiMH batteries (nominally the same capacity) sell for around $10 for a 4-cell package if you catch the sales, and you’d need 3 packs, so $30 for the same capacity. Again, the “hybrid” NiMH cost a bit more, so probably about the same as the Li-Ion.
I switched over to Li-Ion technology this past winter, and I’m sold! Their small size fits in the tiniest of spaces, allowing me to fit R/C, sound, battery, and speaker in rather tiny spaces (such as the B’mann 4-4-0 tender.) On most of my locos, I can remove the battery pack for charging, so I have three packs that I keep for all my locos. Because I can swap them out once they do go flat, I can just keep running. That keeps costs down on two fronts: first, I have three packs for my entire roster of locomotives. I never run more than one (perhaps 2) at a time, so I know I always have one or two packs in reserve, ready to go. They charge in under 2 hours, and last more than three, so I can keep running continuously even with only two packs. Also, because I can keep swapping them out, it eliminates the need to have to buy the higher-capacity batteries. I do use higher capacity batteries in installations where I can’t get the batteries out (and space permits). I’ve used lots of different battery technologies over the years, each one better than the previous. Li-Ion technology is without a doubt the biggest “leap” in technology I’ve seen since Ni-Cads replaced Gel-Cells.
Later,
K
All Battery also has a special on right now for 2-7.2 3800mah batteries with tamaya plugs already installed just buy their wire harness either in series or in parallel for $5 and away you go 14.4 3800 mah and you are or have the power set up you want I use this combination all the time. BatterySpace.com also has on their ebay site 4200 7.2’s 2 of them for $49 free shipping. I use a battery boxcar (bachmann) with everything in it batteries, charger set up, and QSI/G-wire in the boxcar so I can hook up to any engine through the mu plugs and away we go. If I can be of any help email me!! Regal
Peter Benson said:Peter, I bought a Smart Charger with temperature sensor for $24.99 from the same place I got the battery. Ralph
Looks good. I've seen those roomba packs too and for their price seem like a viable option, but what do use to charge them. If all that fits in an Annie tender I should have no problem fitting it into the connies. Thanks guys.
Alright thanks everyone for your input. Think I’m going to go the Li-ion route. Hopefully start gathering everything I need in the next few days or so to start. Pictures to come. Cross my fingers no blue smoke will be released in the process.
Ok got started,got the battery pack in, charging jack in and an on/off switch installed. Just waiting for my g-wire and transmitter to come.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/crashbig/_forumfiles/battery.JPG)
Battery pack
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/crashbig/_forumfiles/switch.JPG)
On/off switch and charging jack
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/crashbig/_forumfiles/airtank.JPG)
And since it was in the shop started mocking up an air tank.
Well I got everything else installed, went very smooth, just wish I would have remembered to take a pic while it was still opened up. I did take one with the finished airtank.
Run time has been good so far. I’ve got three hours run time and the batteries not dead yet.
And my pics not showing up.
Hi Peter,
were you able to connect the firebox light to the qsi?
No I gutted all the original boards, no lights at all, sometime down the road I’ll hook up the front and rear lights again. Maybe someone else will chime in if they kept the flicker board and hooked it up.