Large Scale Central

Basic Air Tools for G Scale Railroad Projects

General Discussion
#1

My apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I was debating whether to post in ‘Track and Trestles’ but thought a question on tools might be of general interest.

I’m planning to build some G scale trestle and other buildings for my future railroad during the winter months. I will likely do garden trellis while I’m at it.

I was thinking that an air gun might make my life easier but I’ve never used air tools and have no idea of the best tools for G scale. I worry about splitting the small size lumber…which I still need to figure out whether I’m cutting it myself (and making loads of saw dust with my table saw) or buying…

I see a Harbor Freight 3 gallon 1/3 HP compressor for $40 and a variety of nail/staple/pin guns. I see 16, 18, 20 gauge nailers/staplers and 23 gauge pin nailers.

Are the above tools a bad choice? I’m not looking to spend a lot on high end tools I will use infrequently. I’m also looking for information on the set of gauges and type of tools (nailer, stapler, pin) I should consider acquiring.

If there are other discussions here please point me to the appropriate thread or other site recommendations as well. I figure there may be more knowledge here on applying air tools to the small scale G scale train hobby.

Thanks in advance.

#2

I have the Harbor Freight pin nailer, and its a great tool to have for model construction. Just make sure you buy name brand pins for it. The cheaper pins can jam the tool.

I bought a compressor on closeout many years ago, so I do not remember what its capacity is. Is overkill for running my airbrush, and it handles the pin nailer with ease. I would think the one you mentioned would also do the job.

#3

One truism with air tools is that you always need more air. Go with the largest capacity compressor you can afford. Craigslist can be your friend here.

#4

Bob McCown said:
One truism with air tools is that you always need more air. Go with the largest capacity compressor you can afford. Craigslist can be your friend here.

Agreed!

One other thing to consider is how much use the tools will get. You might think little use at first however most think that and wish they had not gone cheap from the start. I recommend a good brand name when purchasing tools as they are an investment that can be used for more than basic G scale RR projects. As the familiarity and knowledge grows so will the need for good quality tools.

I helped many folks over the years that thought they had no skill. However it wasn’t their skill level that was at fault it was the piece of crap tools they were trying to use!

#5

True. But since the home upgrades are done, I hope, and I just build small projects for fun, the cheep harbor freight pin nailer does just what I need it to do the one or two projects a year that I use it on. If I were to get serious, I would opt for a better tool.

As for the compressor, I knew it was more then I needed (at the time), but it was on sale, and I knew I would end up using it for other things. So even though its overkill for a simple airbrush, I know I did not tax it beyond its abilities when I inflated the tyres on my Jeep, ran the pin nailer, or blew out the water pipes at my neighbor’s house with it.

#6

David,

I second Rooster’s comments. It may seem like a ‘savings’ at the original purchase, but a low end tool my need to be serviced or replaced sufficiently to exceed the purchase price of a good tool in the first place. I purchased a Proter Cable pin nailer. It cost about 100 bucks when I purchased it, thinking the hobby and a couple small projects about the house. I have been surprised at how many ‘little things’ I use it for.

I have a large 60 gallon shop compressor I purchased for a song many years ago, so I don’t have a good feel for a small compressor. My only suggestion would be make sure the compressor is serviceable, and made by a known company. I also recommend a resaonably priced pressure regulator. Even the low end compressors can run up to 120 psig, and some air tools don’t require that much pressure. Check the pressure requirements/ratings for the nailer you are considering.

Bob C.

#7

The pin nailer is probably the most important tool. I wouldn’t argue that the named brand ones are better but honestly my HF nailer is working just fine for me.

The next tool I would suggest is a stapler. I just got mine and haven’t specifically used it for RR work but I know I will.

Now an airbrush is where I will throw my 2 cents in. I use exclusively the Paasche VL double action airbrush. They are not the best but they do the job, I have had little to no trouble with them. In addition to the brush make a manifold to attach it to that includes a valve for air control and a good dryer. For painting do yourself a favor and get a dryer it keeps moister from screwing up your paint. But a dryer is a good idea for all air tools.

Then get a good impact wrench, won’t be worth a damn on a model railroad but makes changing a tire easier.

I am mixed on the amount of air issue. I can’t argue more air is better but if how practical is a 30 gallon compressor in a basement work shop. Loud noisy and a bit over kill. A small one like your looking at is more hobby room friendly. But more air is better. So I am considering piping a line from my big compressor in my shop to my basement work shop. Then I don’t have to hear it and have the benefit of lots of air.

For modeling I think thats all I will ever use in the air tool department.

#8

This is a chapter from Todd, and his pin nailer http://largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/25893/my-pin-nailer-is-busted

#9

I bought a Grex pin mailer on a whim at ECLSTS one year. I’ve never regretted buying a high-end tool, but I also buy a bunch of stuff from Harbor Freight, but mostly things with no moving parts or electronics :slight_smile:

For air, you have lots of options for small tools like nailers and air brushes. If your budget won’t support buying a reasonable compressor, a refillable tank, or even a spare tire, will provide enough air. I use a 5 gallon tank when working with the nailer in the basement. I refill it from a 10 gallon compressor in the garage and get a few hours of work with the pin nailer out of it with no noise.

For larger tools the issue is volume (CFM), not pressure (PSI). I have a flat sander that will drain my tank in minutes and keep the motor running constantly when I use it. My framing nailer and impact wrench use a lot of air too.

I just bought a 10 gallon oil bath compressor from HF for work; $99 with coupon. So far (3 weeks of daily use) it is performing well.

#10

Lots of excellent feedback. I should clarify that I’m still working full time so I won’t be using these tools to put on roofs or build houses in my spare time. The feedback has allowed me to potentially expand the scope of my solution. I wasn’t thinking about airbrushes but this is definitely something I plan to experiment with in the future. I see the large HF 16 piece airbrush kit requires 4 CFM for the airbrushes which appears to be more than the 3 gal and 6 gal units support. I’m not clear whether violating these specs mean that the airbrush won’t function or rather I would just paint at a slower rate. I currently have an old electric motor oil compressor someone put together on a wood board I use to fill my tires (fun to watch it spin up and huff and puff) but I could see this new compressor replacing this function too with air lines serving the garage and shop. Air wrench might make removing tires easier but I normally use torque wrench to tighten so I’m normally able to get the nuts off without much effort. It’s when a shop puts them on with an air wrench that I need to stand/jump on my wrench to get them off.

I like the idea of keeping the compressor in the garage and running a line to my shop in the basement. Would this need to be a metal line? Or would running the rubber line be sufficient? (through the walls)

It sounds like the brad pin nailer is a given for smaller G scale work. What about other guage nailers/staplers? For those working on various G scale projects do you have any guidelines for applications…use pin nailers for small trestle size lumber…gauge X for dimension Y" lumber.

The smaller gauge 18/20/23 nailers/pin nailers/staplers appear to consumer minimal CFMs (< 0.5) but airbruses require more (4 CFM) so I’m considering a larger compressor. The 10 gallon HF seems like it would satisfy these two functions. The 21 gal is on sale for $149 but the 10 gallon seems to have better output numbers. 10Gal: Air delivery: 5.3 CFM @ 90 PSI , 6.2 CFM @ 40 PSI | 21 Gal: Air delivery: 4.7 CFM @ 90 PSI, 5.8 CFM @ 40 PSI

Before getting locked into to any brand I was wondering if there are favoriates? Porter Cable, Craftsman? Any to avoid.

The thread referred to above discussed buying high quality tools versus throw-away tools like HF sells. I was originally thinking I could get started with 3 gal compressor / a couple of nails guns / and hoses for around $100. On the other extreme I could see the entry level being several hundred dollars. This makes me think of some of the small G scale layouts (I will be in this group) and some of the large layouts with several hundred feet of track and a full time staff maintaining them. Sometimes it’s probably better to get started doing something than to wait until I can put together a top-of-the line shop. Still keeping an open mind. Maybe allow for larger/better compressor/guns and shoot for < $300 for basic setup.

Thanks

#11

When my workroom was where the laundry room is now, I ran a flexible rubber air line (hose) up through the ceiling in the garage, across the attic and down through the ceiling into the workroom. I had no problems with that, and I didn’t have to listen to the compressor.

CFM at a specific pressure is what you need to pay attention too, the more the better. You could always add a spare tank if you want more “storage”.

#12

Why limit this thread to the so called “G” scale part of the hobby ?

Why not call it “Large Scale”, and open the door to everyone, not just one of the many scales.

This part of the Model Railroad Hobby, is small enough, without breaking it up even more.

These tools that should appeal to anyone modelling in anything over “O” scale, are very worthwhile listing, and many may not be known to everyone; so this thread/forum should be interesting.

#13

One problem with long airlines going through cool/cold/warm/hot areas of a building, or from one building to another, can be temperature change, causing moisture in the pressure system.

This may not cause trouble in the more modern air tools, but it can be a disaster in spray painting. To prevent this, involves air dryers, and filters.

I’m just mentioning this in order to prevent surprises for anyone not aware of the potential problem. I’m not in any way an expert in this subject.

#14

Thanks David Maynard.

I’ll likely run a rubber line from garage to basement through wall.

Looking at the list of HF compressors in front of me, when you start getting towards 10 CFM or above you start talking $500-$1200. So I’m guessing that number might double for a ‘higher quality’ brand. These are likely out of my price range unless I’ll be opening a G scale trestle shop. Haven’t seen a need for high CFM unless I want to get into high quality automotive painting. I will check impact wrench requirements.

I’ll wait to see what additional suggestions come in.

#15

sigh

#16

_CampbellHausfield 3gal compressor with built-in regulator, Grex pin nailer, inflating 1:1 tires, and when done drain the tank by blowing out the deadfall from within the turnouts on the layout …

_ BadgerAirBrush compressor 180-11, inline moisture filter, Badger air brushes, ModelFlex paints

doug c

#17

David,

If you are considering an air brush, regardless of compressor or air brush manufacturer, install a desidcant air dryer. Yes, this will be the most costly of the options, but it will be a one time purchase that will last a life time. They can be gotten in smaller sizes (sometimes still larger than we really need) and will assure that any moisture obtained in the compressor (any humidity will condense out of the compressed air) will be removed before it reaches your tools/air brush. Additional water spots in your paint job are no fun to work out.

Obviously you need to be working within your budget, but for myself, I would rather wait a little longer and purchase a good tool as have to go back in the middle of a project on a Sunday evening and have to replace the lower quality tool that just quit working.

Your mileage may vary…

Bob C.

#18

the cfm rating is I think for constant use, a framing nailer goes through nails by the thousands a day in work, a pin nailer building a trestle may go through 100 in a week. So storage will be the issue. You should be concerned with the gallons of capacity, the small pancake compresors will run more often , since it is a small tank that needs filling. a larger tank will cause the compressor to run less, since it stores a larger volume of air. If you go with a small tank consider an auxillary tank to store more air and keep the compressor running less.

Run time on an oiless compressor is the big killer, I killed my first oiless pancake compressor by using too big of tools on it and having it run constantly for hrs at a time, it flat wore out on me, now with a bigger tank, the compressor doesnt work as hard, doesn’t build up tons of heat in the compressor, and with an educated nut at the end of the hose now, it will last a lot longer.

A pin nailer, usually a 23 gauge, sounds like the best one for the job , they are small enough to not split wood like a 18 gauge brad nail will, I used my 18ga on a project and with CAREFULL aiming and determining which way the nail is (fat side v thin side) it would still occasionaly split the wood

As far as brand, the big thing to me is get the best you can afford, if for now you have a Harbor Freight budget, it will get the job done, usually. Agree with others about better pins or brad in a cheep nailer.

edited because I cannot spell Gauge

#19

Fred Mills said:

One problem with long airlines going through cool/cold/warm/hot areas of a building, or from one building to another, can be temperature change, causing moisture in the pressure system.

This may not cause trouble in the more modern air tools, but it can be a disaster in spray painting. To prevent this, involves air dryers, and filters.

I’m just mentioning this in order to prevent surprises for anyone not aware of the potential problem. I’m not in any way an expert in this subject.

Fred, yes, I had one on the shop side of the line. I forgot to mention that. I seldom drain any water out of the bowl on the dryer, so the tanks are doing their other job of condensing out the water. After each use, I open the tank drains, and I usually do get a spray of water on the garage floor. Not a lot, but some.

Don’t get me wrong, I usually do recommend getting the best you can afford. Then, if you care for it properly, it will last you a lifetime. In my case, I could not see spending the money on a pin nailer that I would only use once a year. Ok, now that I have it, I use it a bit more often then that, but it still only gets occasional use. So I am not saying that anyone is wrong in recommending a better product. I was just saying that the ElCheepo HF pin nailer has worked fine for me. I put a 2 or 3 drops of oil in it when I start, and I am not running it for hours at a time. So your mileage may vary.

#20

I plan to run 3/4 PVC Hardline from the shop. I agree completely with Fred in that multiple air temps will likely cause water condensation. That sucks for painting. So at the low spot in my hard line o will install a tee. On the bottom a short length of pipe and a valve to serve a a moisture trap and drain. Then at my work bench I will have a dryer and a pressure regulator. I have even considered two regulators so I can run the Pinner and airbrush without messing with settings. But at least on at a manifold on the bench