Large Scale Central

Ballast

Track and Trestles
#1

Hi all,

Finally got to the Big Operation (qualifies as an open pit mine!), but probably need to make another trip, the stone I got is still a bit on the large side for my taste.

Yep, I took along the sample track I got from Dave G. and we went from “Mountain of stuff” to “Mountain of stuff”, probably should have taken what looked too fine! Live and learn, every day!
Interestingly neither the “Crusher fines”, “Manufactured fines” or “Stone dust” rang a bell with anyone that I called within a 20 mile radius and there are quite a few quarries around.

Today I’ll do some screening, got the mesh size that should work.

#2

OK I made up a frame from 1x3 that measures 24x18 ( it’s wood, so it’s in inches :smiley: :D0, covered it with the mesh top and bottom. Build a retainer frame around the top portion and started sifting. Too large: stays on the top screen, Too small sifts right through both screens Just right stays on the lower screen. The sifting works like a charm, however having to screen all of the “stuff” seems a bit excessive. :wink: :slight_smile: Sooo … Monday I’ll make another trip to the quarry and get a “Sampler” of the finer stuff. Hard to judge without screening, since there’s quite a bit of dust/sand mixed in.

As it comes from the quarry

After sifting

#3

Another source you might try is Garden Centers that specialize in patio blocks. The stuff I get is in 75# bags and is used to fill in between the blocks. A very fine gravel and dust mixture that comes in a dark gray color when wet and turns a lighter gray as it dries. Here’s a pic of what it looks like…

.

#4

Ken,

Thanks for the tip.

Actually going to that quarry was the step after visiting or calling all of the garden centers, building supply places, big boxes and quarries in the neighbourhood.

Around here they use sand to set pavers, flagstone and blocks.

Ah well, just one more challenge. And if it needs to be screened/sifted … that it shall be! :wink: :slight_smile:

#5

HJ:

The names “crusher fines”, etc. define products that include everything down to the finest ‘dust’. The fine stuff is what act as ‘cement’ and helps keep the coarser stuff in place. I wouldn’t sift that out. Doing that interferes with the ability of the material to stay together. The ‘powder’ will just disappear into the ballast when wetted.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#6

Jerry, Some (maybe 40-50%) of the fine stuff will be mixed in again. Since I sifted over a pile of chipped stone - instead of over the wheel barrow - I only got to look at the “fine stuff” this morning after it rained last night.

That should look OK mixed in with the rest.

#7

Well,

I sifted two buckets (40kg/90lbs) of the “stuff” - the 5kg bulk buckets from “Milkbone” are really handy - and I ended up with about 6kg of “usuable size”. Lots of too big! But it will make nice fill for rip-rap!

I’ll be driving to the quarry for sure, for sure.

Now I’m waiting for the rain to wash in the sand/dust I mixed in. Which reminds me, anyone ever mixed just a little bit of cement with the ballast?

#8
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Now I'm waiting for the rain to wash in the sand/dust I mixed in. Which reminds me, anyone ever mixed just a little bit of cement with the ballast?
I have and it's not worth the trouble unless you mix A LOT of cement in with the ballast. A little of it won't do anymore than the dust will after it's wet and then hardens.
#9

I was at the local lowes the other weekend and stumbled upon a 5 gallon bucket of shingle granules (the little rocks on house shingles). I 60 pound 5 gallon bucket costed me 23 Bucks. The are a spot of the woodland scenics ballast. Works well for all scales not just G.

#10

Yes, it rained. It’s still raining.

The size looks quite nice, but having more grey in there would be even nicer. Too wet to go to the quarry!

#11
Brooks said:
I was at the local lowes the other weekend and stumbled upon a 5 gallon bucket of shingle granules (the little rocks on house shingles). I 60 pound 5 gallon bucket costed me 23 Bucks. The are a spot of the woodland scenics ballast. Works well for all scales not just G.
With rock dust being about $15 a ton around here, that seems a fairly expensive route to go.
#12

HJ, I’m not sure what it is you actually have, but it looks like what we have naturally along the Spokane river. What you want is crushed granite fines. It’s grey.

#13

Sometimes you’ve got to take a handful of what you want to the nursery, material supply store and quarry, show that to them and say, “you got anything like this?”. Back when I started, I sifted a 30 gallon trash can of minus 1/4 inch limestone dust. I had asked for crusher fines, stone dust and any other name i could come up with. Took the example to the cement plant 1 block from my house and they said they had piles of the stuff, its called “Ag Lime”. That was a hard lesson. :wink:

#14

Bob,

Yes you are right that does seem a bit. But when here in el paso the rock they have here are too large to use for ballast. I saw it might be a good idea even for an indoor layout just thought I would add my two cents lol.

#15

HJ,
I purchased three bags (around 10 kg each) for $3.00Aud (around $2.50Can) each at a local landscape supply store. The ballast is identical to your second photograph. One bag seems about all I really needed. Ensure that your ballast is not magnetic and some ballast become good conductors when moist.

#16

Hi gang, Up date, visited a few more places - such fun, such fun - after cruising the Internet reading the crushed granite references. Ah, “chicken grit”! Moseyed over to the feed store - after calling first - and got sample bags of #1 and #2. Now that looks a lot more like it!

They sell the stuff in 25kg bags for $11 something, gotta call a real feed place to see what the next larger bag is.

#17
Tim Brien said:
HJ, I purchased three bags (around 10 kg each) for $3.00Aud (around $2.50Can) each at a local landscape supply store. The ballast is identical to your second photograph. One bag seems about all I really needed. Ensure that your ballast is not magnetic and some ballast become good conductors when moist.
I was very concerned about the magnetic properties of granite fines that I was buying from Home Depot as paver sand. Placing a large magnet into a pile of the stuff covered the magnet with stones and dust. This caused me to withdraw a recommendation to use it - until I realized that at a distance of 1/4" even a strong rare-earth magnet didn't pick it up.

Moral of the story - Most all of the fines in North America will have some iron mixed in. Base your concern of the magnetic properties on a strong magnet placed at the appropriate spacing for motors and sound triggers - not by immersing a magnet in the stuff.

I’ve been running with slightly magnetic ballast for several years and never found a single stone attracted to a motor or trigger magnet. Your mileage may vary.

HJ - Don’t wait for it to rain. Soak your fresh ballast with a soft spray from a garden hose to wet the dust on a dry day. It will soon dry into a stuck together mass. If you wait for rain to do the job, much of it will wash away.

I agree that the sifted stuff looks best. l’d use it as dressing just before an open house or photo session, but not as the stuff the track floats in.

Around these parts the call it Stone Sand.

JR

#18

I started out using something called “path chips”, which was the only thing I found locally that was even close to the right size. Trouble was, it was the wrong color for my layout and doesn’t really hold together very well. Now I’m using grit that has decomposed off the sides of boulders in mountains east of here. The stuff piles up at the base of the boulders so it’s pretty easy to scoop up a good load. It’s a nice tan color and the particles are jagged and irregular so they hold together pretty well.

#19

HJ – Unless you have some significant poultry farming operations in the immediate area the 25Kg/50lbs sack is about all you’ll find. After that it tends to be a bulk purchase item and I’ve had no luck with any of the feed stores in my area of Texas, due to my less than truck load request, the cost of trucking, their storage issues and their lack of overall demand.

My substitute is decomposed granite (gold fines) top dressed with grit. ($50US/ton picked up at a landscape suppliers site since the nearest granite quarry is 160 miles away and $7.5/50lb bag at a local feed store) By utilizing both I get a variation in color from area to area on the railway and given the small amount of grit it’s fairly economic. Ballast in this part of the world is generally red or pink granite with some gray to light gray basalts so…

I’m also using a mixture of 1/2 and 3/4 minus crushed granite ($70/ton) as riprap/fill and cover mulch for about 3" either side of the railway for drainage and weed control. I think it looks good, it provides a bit of erosion/wash control for the fines and is from the same quarry as the fines so very similar in dry color.
A ton of the 1/2-3/4 mixture will cover 100 sq. feet 2 1/2 to 3" deep so it goes a long way.

Mark

#20

Hi all, The ballast problem is solved, picked up 3 bags of #1 and 2 bags of #2. Mixed the stuff 2/3 to 1/3 (approx) and this is what she looks like

Sample track courtesy of Dave TOC. I shall be applying sand and ballast on the elevated portion in the near future! That’s just to make sure the styrofoam roadbed doesn’t go crumbly on me. :wink: :slight_smile: