Large Scale Central

Ballast

Track and Trestles
#1

Economic forces and product changes have forced the C.V.S. Ry. to seek alternate sources of ballast for spring repairs.

Formerly we used an Old Castle product called Mr. Granite Step 2 Bedding Sand which was nice angular crushed granite in dust available from Homely Despot. For some reason HD decided to change suppliers and now carries a bedding sand product that is much more sand like (round granules) and a funny brown color. It just wont do.

Many of you know I railfan a stone transfer plant near my work - hopper loads of stone come in by rail to be stockpiled and then leave by dump truck. I stopped at the Tilcon Danbury Stone Plant yesterday to inquire about Stone Dust and picked up a sample of what they call Stone Sand. Very similar to the product I was buying in bags from HD. At $26.50 / Ton it is a whole bunch less expensive than $3.25 for a 50 lb bag. The railroad will save over $100/Ton on ballast this year.

To solve the logistical problem of delivery, Matthew and I are adding 12" framed plywood sides to our utility trailer. I’m comfortable carrying a little less than 1/2 ton in my trailer. We hope to finish tonight so I can bring a load home on Friday. Unfortunately, the stone plant is not open on weekends.

With this change the C.V.S. Ry. will be using the same ballast as the local railroads (crushed a bit finer) transported from the quarry by rail except for the last few miles.

JR

#2

Sounds like the value of the stock just went up. With such prudent cost saving measures, I’m sure the GM will get a substantial raise, plus a bonus.

#3

Gee, my supplier delivers. Did you ask?

That is a hefty load for such a small trailer.

#4

HAlf ton is only the contents of the average front end loader’s bucket…sounds a lot heavier than it actually looks…

#5
Steve Featherkile said:
Gee, my supplier delivers. Did you ask?

That is a hefty load for such a small trailer.


How do you know how big my trailer is? It’s a cut down boat trailer. Good for at least 1500 lbs. I figure to stay under 1000 lbs to be safe.

Re Delivery - No place to dump it plus then I have to move it. And delivery ain’t cheap here in Fairfield county. Probably would cost at least $250 for a truck load which would last me 50 years.

I’ll just leave it it the trailer 'till ballasting is done. My garden tractor has a standard ball hitch so I can cart the load around the yard as needed and distribute directly from the trailer.

JR

#6
Bart Salmons said:
HAlf ton is only the contents of the average front end loader's bucket.....sounds a lot heavier than it actually looks.....
YUP. You should see the front-end loader at this transfer plant. It fills the average dump truck in one scoop. Long dump trailers in 3. Probably a 4-5 ton scoop depending on material.

The bagged goods I used to buy were about 50 lbs. and only .5 cubic feet. I only expect to cover two-three inches or so of the trailer floor. Last year I used about 10 bags. If I get 800 lbs. that will equate to 16 bags - plenty for future expansion.

Now if I were TOC, I’d vacuum up the old, re-set the track on the sub-ballast, then clean and replace the old. A great economical plan if you have the time, or the work crews to do it.

JR

#7

Hmmm. Delivery is a bit more expensive where you live, I guess. I get mine delivered for less than $20.00 bucks per standard dump truck. I guess my guy wants my business.

It is truly amazing the differences, one part of the country to another.

#8
Steve Featherkile said:
Hmmm. Delivery is a bit more expensive where you live, I guess. I get mine delivered for less than $20.00 bucks per standard dump truck. I guess my guy wants my business.

It is truly amazing the differences, one part of the country to another.


Chief, there’s a whole lot of difference between southern Illinois and San Francisco. A whole lot of difference.

#9
Ric Golding said:
Steve Featherkile said:
Hmmm. Delivery is a bit more expensive where you live, I guess. I get mine delivered for less than $20.00 bucks per standard dump truck. I guess my guy wants my business.

It is truly amazing the differences, one part of the country to another.


Chief, there’s a whole lot of difference between southern Illinois and San Francisco. A whole lot of difference.

No kidding… Its a good thing I live just north of Spokane, WA. :smiley:

#10
Steve Featherkile said:
Hmmm. Delivery is a bit more expensive where you live, I guess. I get mine delivered for less than $20.00 bucks per standard dump truck. I guess my guy wants my business.

It is truly amazing the differences, one part of the country to another.


Without a doubt. Here, you can’t buy a run-down city house in a crappy neighborhood for under $200,000.00 - A quiet suburban neighborhood will cost you $350K for 1000 sq. ft. - If you want a McMansion plan on paying $750 plus. Houses into the $2Millions are not uncommon within a mile of my house. Gas is $3/gallon and the MEDIAN income for the county is $95.9K. Now, considering how many low income people live in the cities that are earning under the national poverty level there has to be some HUGE incomes to reach that average.

The stone alone would be about $75 for a 3 ton load and it’s a 1 hour 25 mile round-trip to the stone plant. I figure they guy has to charge at least $75 on top of the stone to cover costs. I never got a quote, but I’m in the construction business and I see what we pay for loads.

BTW - We got the trailer sides done last night. I’ll be picking up my first load at lunch today.

JR

#11

HA-HA! This is the first spring that I HAVEN"T had to reballast or do trackwork! Raised roadbed is DA BOMB!

#12

Bart, bring your truck when you visit and we’ll go get some ballast!

#13

It does help when the plant is only about 5 miles away, and is also part of the nursery that I use. I drop a lot of $$ there.

Here it is about 110,000 for a 1000 sq ft home. I still don’t see how kids can get started without help.

#14
Steve Featherkile said:
It does help when the plant is only about 5 miles away, and is also part of the nursery that I use. I drop a lot of $$ there.

Here it is about 110,000 for a 1000 sq ft home. I still don’t see how kids can get started without help.


It’s tough. Probably why so many have trouble with credit.

I was out of work for 2 years about 3 years ago. I seriously considered moving to Central PA. You can still buy a nice 3 bedroom city house in Huntingdon or Mount Union for around $60K. Problem was finding work. Most people in that area work in the prisons or the colleges. Not much in the way of small industry. Now that I have some experience in the Real Estate development & construction field, I might look there again some day. There is an area called Rayestown Lake that is booming with summer home development for the rich from Philly.

The trailer held 1340 Lbs. comfortably (no bulging tires) which cost me $20 cash-and-carry, so you get a great deal at $20 a load delivered.

BART -

I don’t get it. The elevated roadbed is where I lose the most ballast each year :open_mouth:

JR

#15

Hmmm I dunno…I have catch rails along mine to catch the ballast…Its all just settled in nicely…don;t even have to dig out the turnouts this year!

#16

Jon,

I got my ballast for the original SCRY at the TILCON Quarry in Wallingford on 68 … they kind of laughed… but I weighed the pickup without, and later with the metal garbage can I needed …

Stone Dust is about $5 for a 450 pound garbage can, so probably somewhere around $20.00 per ton … pretty cheap, and prototypical!

Matt

#17

For my 3-rail O-gauge layout, I used 25 lbs of “Medium Chicken Grit,” gray in color, probably granite but not sure after all this time; mixed with the contents of of half of a 75 lb tube of probably 1/8 inch minus gravel that I used for 3 winters as weight in the trunk of my practically perfect (well, not really) 1965 Mustang for traction. The bag was about to give up the ghost or I would have used it for a 4th winter. :smiley: That 50 pounds of gravel did the majority of my layout that was exposed. Looked pretty good, too!

For my 45mm layout, I used 1/2 inch minus for the sub-roadbed, topped with 3/8 inch minus basalt that the GN/BN/BNSF uses in the neighborhood. I ordered a ton of the 3/8 minus stuff and still have a bit left. I would dress the ballast twice a year for the first 3 years with 1/4 inch minus that I sifted through 1/4 inch hardware cloth.

Now the track is all torn up and I get to start over.

#18

I finally got to putting down some ballast on Sunday. Saturday was spent cleaning up the yard and planting what we bought at ECLSTS and Home Depot before the threat of frost was gone.

It sure is nice to be able to use as much ballast as you want without worrying about how quickly you are using up bags. I re-worked Coal Dump curve where last Sunday’s 8 inches of rain had torn away 2+ years worth of fill. I added a liberal helping, re-forming the fill without even putting a dent in my supply. Only problem is that it now looks more like a BNSF single track main than a struggling museum/short line :open_mouth:

  • BART - Guess the fact that my raised roadbed is directly underneath where the roof drains might have something to o with my loosing ballast? Gotta get some gutter work done.

JR

#19
Jon Radder said:
I finally got to putting down some ballast on Sunday. Saturday was spent cleaning up the yard and planting what we bought at ECLSTS and Home Depot before the threat of frost was gone.

It sure is nice to be able to use as much ballast as you want without worrying about how quickly you are using up bags. I re-worked Coal Dump curve where last Sunday’s 8 inches of rain had torn away 2+ years worth of fill. I added a liberal helping, re-forming the fill without even putting a dent in my supply. Only problem is that it now looks more like a BNSF single track main than a struggling museum/short line :open_mouth:

snip

JR


Kind of like this, Jon?

http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68935&d=1167780872

Jon Bentz photo from RailroadForums.com

#20

Bruce…I used to take a 5 gallon plastic pail, in the front passenger seat of my old MGB to a quarry, and load the pail for nothing…they would never charge me.
So if you take your little car with a 5 gallon pail, you can get stone dust for very little charge I’m sure.
If you have a friend with a larger car or a small truck; just use 5 gallon plastic pails…you can store the stuff in them too, rather than a pile in the drive way. Just put the cover on the pail to keep the rain out.
I also use the stuff instead of salt to prevent slipping on the ice during the winter…keep it dry and it works great.