Take a read down this thread on the Bachmann LS Board:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,21521.0.html
Going to be interesting to see the answers.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Interesting. If they could come up with a correctly-sized 1:20 passenger car for ~150 street price, I bet they’d sell a bunch of them.
Why would it be street price of 150? When the freight cars ended up being MORE than accucraft?
With the Chinese economic model, where they seem to know what the dollar is really worth (1/4 to 1/3 of what we have been led to believe it’s worth), they just jack the prices to compensate, insuring they get the value they need.
Not that this is a bad thing…but recall the cost of the outside frame 1:20 model of the 2-8-0.
With all the stuff required to make it outside frame.
Now look at MSRP on the new INside frame 2-8-0…and figure in MAP, and they’ll be at least $950 street…what were OS 2-8-0’s going for, street? About 1/4 that.
Bets are, with the necessity to add some verion of the Super Socket to allow installation of decoders to opperate lights, and maybe sound cards for brake and wheel noises, and toilets flushing, I’d guess street will come in around double what you are hoping for.
Over here in dear Old Blighty, the AMS cars are selling for around $340-360 or so. I’d like a couple more for my K27 to haul around, but it will be a the 12th of Never afore I cough up that much.
If Bachmann can get them out of the door for $150, well, that translates into about £150 or so here, and that is a whole new chicken of a different kettle.
tac, ig & The Tightwad Boys
If they’re in the 300 range, they wont sell many of them. The AMS cars are less than that. I think they’d want to take slice of that pie, not try and be the high-detail, high-price model.
What I tried to convey was when they did the 1:20 freight cars, hopes were high that cost would be low. That did not happen.
Currently, Wholesale Trains Bach boxcars $138, tanks $128- $147.
RGS Hobbies, AMS boxcar highest at $150, but they have tanks for $71, reefers for $103.
Comparatively, AMS is equal or cheaper that Bachmann in about all categories.
AMS passengers are $250, which means, since Kader sets their own price structure, $250 should be about the best you’ll see a Bachmann for, more likely $300 range.
We’ll see.
There they go, gett’n me all excited!
I’m now waiting for Spectrum level Lil Big Haulers 
Guess there is no hope for something in the $49.95 range??
:lol: :lol:
Happy (Low Cost) RRing,
Jerry
well, reading the responses I think they are missing the boat. Everyone on that board is wanting better detail than the AMS coaches, which means more expensive than AMS. Im in total agreement with you guys here, make them cheaper. The economy sucks, make your models cheaper and you will clean house. And why cant those that want better detail do their own work a little.
And yet, when it’s Kader, cheaper is not in the lexicon.
After the K-27 came out, after the review was written, which took the MSRP right off the Bachmann website…they raised the MSRP.
Look at the MSRP on the 2-foot gauge Forney morphed to a 3-foot engine…MSRP $1250. Really?
The Meyer is $1424, the “new” 2-8-0 is $1574.
Heck, the 1:22.5 Anniversary is $425, and the Climax is $1350!
Figure MAP of 40% off MSRP, and what do you have?
I’ve got a brand new in the box undec Anniversary, and folks argue with me at $100. Argue!
You can’t hardly give some of this stuff away.
I’ve got two or three original Climaxes in the box, no takers.
What they ask for this stuff, and what it’s worth on the street, are two diametrically opposed numbers, folks.
It seems every locomotive takes a big jump in MSRP…to take a single-motored Forney and ask almost as much as a Climax is ludicrous.
Remember, though, the Technical Advisor told us all the electronics, engineering, development, manufacture and production cost nothing, and would not add to the cost of the locomotives.
I don’t need opening doors. Sheesh, next they’ll want opening windows. (And little characters we can walk in and out the doors as we do voices. 
)
I don’t need very detailed seats. I don’t even need lights - since that requires pickups on the wheels which increases drag. If I want lights, I’ll add them myself and use a battery to power them.
If I need any of that detail, I’d just as soon add it myself, rather than jack up the cost.
I think $150 should be the target street price. Just make a car that looks good as it goes around the track. Make it roll nicely. Everybody talks about the 10 foot rule; make it look good from 10 feet.
All good thoughts. I would recommend expressing these thoughts on the Bachmann Forum where they can see these comments. They do listen.
I would tend to agree that the price is the key item and prices of product has gone up and will continue to go up.
I generally use a 50% number (C-19s can be had preorder for $790) so a MSRP of $150 would equate to a $300 list. Considering that the new Gramps tanks list for $265, and the Cabooses list for $325 that’s going to be hard for them to accomplish.
Stan
(PS FWIW the Bachmann Caboose is lighted and has no drag)
So, the passenger cars will have an MSRP of $500. if you extrapolate from the Gramps car through the Caboose.
Nice.
Makes them at your made-up 50% number the same price as what really exists now.
You do know they already made up their mind on this. They’re just fishing to see what folks are willing to pay.
All you have to do is watch Blackstone, and you can figure out what Howard is thinking of.
I decided I’d never, as in ever again, buy anthing from Bachmann.
Personal choice.
Bachmann are trying to shed their ‘cheap rubbish’ connection by improving the product line. They want a distinct line drawn between the cheap mass produced ‘Big Hauler’ range and the Spectrum range. Look to the current prices on the Big Hauler rolling stock. Prices have increased dramatically over the last two years. The msrp on a Big Hauller coach used to be around $105.00, with current street price anywhere from 50.00 upwards. Does one really believe a Spectrum level 1/20.3 scale coach for a $150.00 price level? As they say, “in your dreams” as it is NOT going to happen. Time to move on as the times are a changing. Bachmann is a business, NOT a charity.
Bachmann have not lowered their price on each introduced item over the last ten years or so. No matter the increased complexity or not, the newer item is always more expensive than the last. Bachmann want to be thought of for quality, NOT price.
The ‘true’ value of the Yuan and the decreased value of the dollar will most likely see coaches in the $250.00 start price range. I would not be suprised to see a MSRP of at least $400.00. They will not be undercutting Accucraft/AMS!!!
There are two distinct types of modellers. First is the modeller who likes to run trains. He is the hands on type of guy who knows how to make/modify things. Second type is the guy who likes to simply see his trains run. He is the type that wants all the bells and whistles and smoke and lights and wants the item ready to run direct from the box. Bachmann will cater for this later type of modeller. I call him the cheque book modeller. He pays for everything with little actual modelling knowledge or experience.
We can expect a new release coach to be fully equipped with ball bearing wheelsets, lights and heaven forbid probably smoking stove, all decoder controlled. Forget about offering kits for the modeller as Bachmann have tried this method and firstly, it is no cheaper in the marketplace and secondly it does not work for them. There is no market.
I guess it depends on what you consider to be “cheap rubbish.”
I have yet to have any detail parts drop off my Bug Mauler stuff, and, they look pretty good from 10 feet or so.
Can the same be said for the Spectrum stuff??? Not from what I hear.
Its a good thing that I have all the rolling stock that I’ll need in this lifetime and the next.
I was surprised when Bachmann decided to bring “kits” back…knowing as I did they couldn’t get rid of the first batch, and dealers still had dusty examples on their shelves THEY couldn’t get rid of.
All it takes is a vocal minority to get them to think maybe there is a market.
I’ve got a bunch of kits here, unbuilt, that hobby shops were glad to part with to get them off the shelves.
Sort of like the plug and pray folks, who have no clue how to wire anything…then are subject to the “fiddler” who likes to keep changing pins and functions.
How many pins do you have on the far end of your Ames Super Socket?
And how many different boards are now required to mate up with all these “universal” sockets, anyway?
Oh, and maybe the Accu caboose has some drag (depending on version, maybe a lot of it), but do they have Blaine Doors (journal box lids) that become a hidden part of your scenery if you don’t glue them shut?
So, $1,575 for a new 2-8-0, and $500 each for passenger cars…and a string of, oh, ten…in this economy, no less.
Steve Featherkile said:
I guess it depends on what you consider to be "cheap rubbish."I have yet to have any detail parts drop off my Bug Mauler stuff, and, they look pretty good from 10 feet or so.
Can the same be said for the Spectrum stuff??? Not from what I hear.
Its a good thing that I have all the rolling stock that I’ll need in this lifetime and the next.
Me, too. One gets weary of going looking for rear tender steps from the OF 2-8-0. Or wondering if it will quit on a grade when the axle gear goes away.
Side steps on logging locos…and end steps…handrails…at least none of mine have any Ames Super Sockets With Integrated Production Electronics any more.
And the gearboxes have been upgraded on all the rod locomotives to something reliable.
Too bad for the guys like me, who are farily new in the hobby and are still building up thier roster. Looks like some scratchbuilding is in my horizon. I just cant see paying the high price for the Bachmann spectrum models. I have some and they are nice, but I would not consider them to be better than an AMS/Accucraft model. So I wont pay more for the bachmann.
Of course in the end, if they hit the dealers and they are selling them for $150, then I will by some.
One last thing, someone mentioned on that board to make something other than the Jackson and Sharp coaches. I think that is a great idea. The market is so thin why try to take the share of another, and the been there done that. Create your own niche with a different coach.
Im so glad I have a logging line. What more do I need then some flat cars, log cars, caboose, gondolas and maybe a boxcar or two. They all can be scratch built from a flat car.