Large Scale Central

Bachmann G Scale Trains On TrainWorldTV

General Discussion
#21

No mold lines on the ends that I saw, but I wasn’t looking all that close neither. The floor is attached to the shell, I think its glued in. Or possibly a snap or press fit. I didn’t try taking apart the demo unit in front of the Bachmann rep. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)The truck is held to the floor with 2 screws, through the ears, or tabs, on the sides of the truck. And if you look close, there are multicoloured wires in a ribbon that can barely be seen in the gap between the truck and the floor. These probably come from a circuit board mounted on or above the truck, that control the directional headlight and side marker lights. The windows are white translucent plastic so you cant see inside of the eggliner.

While I was examining the eggliner, the rep was answering a question from someone else. And the answer was they are looking to bring back some of the best sellers from the old Aristocraft line. The diesels (he didn’t say what ones), and maybe some “other stuff”. The person asking questions asked about the steam engines, and the rep paused. The person asking questions said that Bachmann does a lot of steam engines in their own line and the rep agreed. So, that implies, but doesn’t clearly state, that the Aristo steam locomotives are probably not going to be reintroduced. Since the rep didn’t explicitly say no Aristocraft steam, I don’t want to start the rumor that they said no Aristo steam. I am just saying that the implication was there.

#22

Thanks David.

Yeah, Bachmann does a lot of steam locos, but none in SG and 1:29, where the market was/is… and where the “hole” is.

Well, all we can do is wait and see. There’s a lot of validity to the arguement I have heard from several dealers that there’s a lot of used stuff on the market, and perhaps Bachmann (wisely) is waiting for demand to increase again.

Greg

#23

Greg or David …

Is the Bachmann “Egg Liner” essentially the Aristo product? If so, are there any foibles that have been remedied by Bachmann? Otherwise, buy a Aristo version based on price? What is the retail on the B’mann egg? As to those prices for Bachmann, the MSRP vs. the consumer market “sale” price is still widely different.

Thanks,

Wendell

#24

Wendell ;

Did you review pg 1 of this thread, but scroll down close to the bottom ?

Starting with say my march 22nd post, where I attached a link to the mar. 18th visit by the B’mann rep who answered at least one of your questions ?

Then beyond did you read David’s post with pics of the eggliner, seemingly taken during the B’mann rep’ visit ?

And regards $ … since this is a Trainworld thread;

https://www.trainworld.com/search/?q=eggliner

… and another us-based online reseller does state a cheaper retail pricepoint (on pre-orders).

nite,

doug c

#25

Wendell, I just saw the eggliner on the Bachmann display table. I do not own one, so I can’t say if there are significant differences between the Bachmann re release and the older Aristo version, beyond what I said in my post. The motor block appears to be the same, but without getting one and opening it up, I can’t say with 100% certainty that they are the same.

Since I don’t want one, I haven’t been shopping around to see what the street prices are on them.

Since the Bachmann unit has Aristocraft couplers on it, I suspect that for the most part they are the same, mechanically. And Bachmann has come out with ones that Aristo didn’t make. So the choice is yours, whether to search for the Aristo ones, or purchase the Bachmann ones.

Greg, I agree. The Aristo steamers were 1:29th scale, mainline locomotives, whereas the Bachamnn steamers are narrow gauge versions in 1:22.5 or 1:20.3. I was only relaying what I heard. I didn’t say that agreed with the statement. I can see not re releasing models that have had long production runs. But the Consolidation and even the articulated didn’t have as long of a run as the Pacifics and Mikados. So, just maybe, Bachmann could start with those. But, I got the impression that they aren’t considering the Aristo steamers at this time.

#26

I agree David, and sorry if I implied that it was your opinion or decision.

It was that the Bachmann upper management (who are really Kader) may not draw that distinction. Unfortunately, the problems with the “prime mover” motor block as applied to steamers (slipping drivers, poor wheel gauge control) might make them concerned.

I’d love to get in a conversation with the decision maker and see what they REALLY understand, not to convince them to make or not make, but to be sure they have an accurate understanding of what they have available to them.

With all the years of Aristo top management publicly denying ANY issues with MANY things, especially this motor block, it’s hard to be confident that the “new owners” of the manufacturing capability (ability to product the product) understand better or even equal to, well, reality.

Anyway, for Wendell, the motor block in the eggliner is the old tried and true motor block, pretty reliable, and in then eggliner, not likely to be overloaded. The eggliner is pretty darn simple.

Greg

#27

No problem Greg. I just want everyone else who stumbles across this thread to understand.

As for the Aristo drives in the steam locomotives, I know they have a new and supposedly better design. In one of the last Aristo Insiders, they discussed the new drive (with D ends on the axles) and they had tested a few. IIRC there was even a picture of one of them. So, if Kader has the specs for that drive, they have the recipe to fix the ails of the Aristo steamers.

But Greg does brig up a good point. Do the decision makers at Kader understand the difference between a narrow gauge C19 in 1:20.3 and a standard gauge Pacific in 1:29, and the different markets they appeal to?

#28

Just to be clear, only one loco had the “D” axles, which I believe was the last SD45 run.

The eggliner does not have the “prime mover” motor blocks, never had, but the older style, found in FA, RS-3, RDC, etc.

This older style motor block went through several revisions, about 5, and the final version, again which is in the eggliner, is fairly robust, and it’s weak points are not shared in any way with the newer “prime mover” blocks. (it does have some weak points, but normally associated with overloading the drive or shorting on a switch)

Greg

#29

I thought this was a HOBBY

#30

Greg, yes, that was the only production locomotive to have the D end axles. I know that. But there were test drives for the steamers made that way. Supposedly the new drives were to arrive in late summer, but, instead, Aristo dried up and blew away. If those drives were actually designed and tested, like we were told (or was that another Aristo fantasy?), then they could be made and used if and when Kader decides to re release any of the Aristo steamers.

#31

Hmm… I don’t think they ever made the “D” axles even in a prototype… I know they talked about it, but the issue is how the product is made… the gearboxes are assembled and then the wheels put on in sync…

It would take a different assembly strategy, like put the wheels on the gearboxes/axles, and then synch them during assembly as the flywheels connected the gearboxes.

Not impossible, but quite different. Sure would have been nice. If I get off my butt, I have an offer for Barry to look at the setup and figure out how to make keyed axles and wheels, perhaps a keyed metal insert to replace the tapered one in the later drives. (remember the metal insert in the steamer wheels?)

Greg

#32

I’d be interested in that, Greg, I’ve got several Aristo steamers that are in the dead line.

#33

Keying the drive wheels would be a great solution. That should have been the way it was done from the get-go.

#34

Yeah, as I have often said, Aristo was plagued with clever designs that were either poorly assembled, or did not stand up.

The tapered axles allowed the complete assembly of the drive train, with nothing more than just plugging the motor, gearboxes and flywheels together.

Then the wheels were added with the siderods already on them (I believe). So the “keyless” axle to wheel allows this to be done easily and quickly.

If you keyed the axles, here’s the extra cost to Aristo:

  1. extra manufacturing on the axles, key slot

  2. precise alignment of key slot with the screws that mount the axle to the gear

  3. assembly of gearboxes and flywheels needs to have the gearboxes in perfect phase, might need some extra engineering

  4. while we are at it, gauge and back to back might require shims, although this may not be fair, since Aristo never gauged this before.

So, the idea that worked fine on diesels, which need no phasing of drivers, was carried over to the steamers, where unfortunately, slippage of drivers usually destroys the rods or the gearboxes or both.

Greg

#35

If Bachmann could key the wheels on the axles on their steamers why couldn’t Aristocraft? After all, weren’t they all produced by the same maker in China? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

#36

Joe, Aristo didn’t spec it that way, and they didn’t design it that way. It could have, and should have, been done. Heck, even Heartland has flats on the axle ends, and the drivers have slotted holes in them so they key onto the axles.

#37

Remember, the fundamental difference… all axles geared on the Aristo, the side rods are cosmetic, but if the wheels get loose, they can jam nicely.

On the Bachmann, one axle is driven, and the rest get power from the side rods, so there cannot be “conflict” between the wheels being driven by the axles AND by the side rods.

Since the Bachmann don’t have the wheels locked by gears, then you don’t have to “sync” the wheels and then attach the side rods like an Aristo, but you can bolt the wheels on FIRST and then the wheels will rotate to match the driven wheel.

It’s the DUAL connection in the Aristo, where you have to align the wheels at whatever the axles are “at”, so you cannot have keyed axles on an aristo unless you can exactly sync them first … re-read #3 in my post above.

Greg

#38

Greg, yes. But Heartland does it with their 2 axle motor blocks, with keyed drivers. So, with a little work, it can be done.

#39

How does Barry’s Big Trains handle the problem?

#40

Steve,

I can only speak for Barry’s 4-6-0 chassis. Only the rear drivers are driven by the motor and gear train just like the Bachmann setup.