Large Scale Central

Bachmann Evaluation and Procedures

General Discussion
#1

Because there seem to be a substantial amount of clueless individuals out there who do not understand, let me walk you through this.

I have been doing this on Bachmann Products in Large Scale for 11 years.
It began because some moron decided he knew better than the facts, and modified an e-mail posting, sent it to the then CEO at Bachmann in an attempt to get me sued.

Bottom line, they talk to me and not him.
The end result was they send me one of the first that they produce, I evaluate the unit, generate necessary fixes, submit the problem, with data, measurements and suggested procedure to Bachmann.
Then we wait.
I CAN write a review at that point.
It is up to Bachmann to decide what they want to do.
They can follow my recommendation, they can generate their own “fix”, or do nothing.

Some got sideways because they thought I was “sitting” on this last one.
Well, sort of.
They had been convinced that there was not a problem by a couple of sources.
They also have not been receiving complaints on loose counterweights.

The “fix” I submitted, and waited to see what they wanted to do, seems to have been leaked almost verbatim, and while I don’t need my name in print, three weeks of work on various aspects of this locomotive, treating Bachmann with respect, and having it “leaked” tended to make me re-evaluate my relationship with the process.

The shims is just a field fix.
I was really hoping they would do something a bit more substantial, and possibly easy to do, and you know, that might happen sometime.
Various means of doing so have been discussed.

While I will not PUBLISH these “fixes” until authorized to do so, “consumer mods” do not fall into that category, like the doors, coupler swing, white class lights, locking 1 and 4 axles, etc.

For 11 years I have argued, pleaded, poked, all in an attempt to get them to allow “publishing”.
With the events of this locomotive, the on-again, off-again communication issues seemingly created by one or two individuals, I decided not to argue this time.
And, I probably won’t “argue” in the future, either.

I have always tried to treat them with respect, and always figured at some point in the last 11 years they would realize that being correct 100% of the time on these “fixes”, somehow they would begin to treat me with enough respect to at least listen and not do the “there he goes again” treatment.

I have not decided if the raised blood pressure and stress is worth it.
I will be watching the developments as they occur, and if they want my input, I guess at this point they can ask.

But, it does look like we may have a quantum shift in attitude, and that for the better.

And, for the record, I do not get “paid” by Bachmann for doing this.
If you had any idea of the amount of time it takes, the long-term evaluation process, no matter what dollar value I might assign to my time, I lose money.
But, I do this as it is important to the hobby, the hobbyist, and to Bachmann Industries.
I have had folks try to get me thrown out of Kalmbach review writing by lying, making statements we were easily able to prove false, and we seem to have that person encouraging others to post such nonsense in public forums.
I would suggest you check out your facts before posting such.
Feel free to call me and we’ll discuss it.

I hope that made sense.

TOC

#2

Dave,

If you say it, I believe it. I won’t make a major Bachmann purchase on anything you have not reviewed and posted on. Hope Bachmann understands what that means to them because I don’t think I’m the only person that thinks like that.

Best,
TJ

#3

More bother thans its worth IMO Dave.

#4

Dave,
the release of the K-27 ranks up there with the release around ten years ago of the 36-ton Shay. Both locomotives are benchmark products from Bachmann for detail and complexity. No other manufacturer has attempted to release mass consumer oriented plastic locomotives with the complexity of the loco range as has Bachmann. Unfortunately, with increasing complexity there seems either naivety or pig headedness creeping into the equation.

    While George Schreyer may have contributed to the hobby with his evaluation and fixes for various largescale items,  I feel that your contribution eclipses anything George has done.   You have selflessly helped those in need with various fixes on their locomotives and rolling stock and have provided personal support for those who needed it.    It is indeed unfortunate that there are selfish individuals, who, driven by personal greed,  do not appreciate (or maybe are jealous of) your contribution to the hobby.   Rest assured that there are many who appreciate what you have contributed and who know that you are the person to turn to when a problem occurs, or for words of wisdom.



   Your name has been at the top of the 'guru' help list for as long as I have been in largescale.   Those others who seem to be bathing in the moonlight with their glorius contributions to the latest Bachmann release were unknowns, to many,  before mention of the 'K' release.    They are revelling in their 15 minutes of fame and, like their contribution,  their fame will be relegated to the nearest garbage bin after the 15 minutes has elapsed.    It is indeed unfortunate that the product release will be marred by their actions.  I have removed any new purchases from Bachmann from my shopping cart.   The way the 'K' release was handled has turned me away from the manufacturer.    I was rebuked for daring to suggest that the complexity of this locomotive would ensure that many 'fixes' would be needed in the not too distant future.  Your findings have reinforced my beliefs.   I do not believe that we have seen the end of the 'fixes' that will be needed, in the long term.



   Your technical findings seem to indicate,  that while a lot of thought was given in the design stage to this design,  the actual production treated the product as a 'toy' and not a complex model.  The counterweight item is an example of a part that should have been a 'tight' fit on the axle end as it is responsible for producing torque on the axle and yet it was made a loose fit,  to most probably aid assembly.  It makes one wonder what other shortcuts were taken in production.  I applaud your contribution to the hobby and hope that this current nonsense is quickly dealt with and those who have stood to gain personally from this release are made aware that their 'contibution' to the hobby is a backward step for the manufacturer.
#5

Tim,
Don’t be shy of buying a Bachmann item. Just figure the price of TOC looking at it into the price. Not as cheap, but certainly a good runner when he’s done. He has done an LGB Mogul, Bachmann Climax, USA 44 tonner, and a Bachmann Mogul for us. He did my LGB Mogul 10 years ago and it still performs well.

#6

Ric,
I understand what you are saying but it is not the price of the item, but the politics involved. In reality, it should not be the ‘field’ representative like Dave, who has to beta-test the item. Proper design evaluation and testing needs to be addressed before any product is released. The driving force for this loco release was Christmas 2007. The design was rushed to ensure a product release. The integrity of the design is more important than making it in time for a Christmas release. As it turned out there were insufficient items manufactured for the demand and many were left with empty sacks on Christmas Day.

The 'K' raises the bar for future product releases from Bachmann.   If Bachmann's next release is a simple uncomplicated mogul or American then people will go 'ho-hum, been down this road before.'    Consumers need cofidence in a product.  To date I do not believe that purchasers of the 'K' actually have confidence in the loco for long term reliability.   This lack of confidence will be reflected in future purchases from  the manufacturer.  Bachmann need to stand up to the plate and fix this locomotive,  so next time they produce such a complex loco then they will have the expertise to hit a home-run.   Bachmann need to do a complete mindset with their releases.  They need to appreciate that while their earlier products,  including the Annie are simply toys,  releases like the K and the Shay are complex models which need to be addressed as such.  Rigorous testing is required before release,  not in the field.


As always,  it is the messenger who feels the wrath and it is generally Dave who is the victim at the end of the big stick.   It would be nice if those weilding the stick actually had a good hard look at themselves and made a decision to produce a reliable product,  properly tested and evaluated before release.  Until then it will be guys like Dave who come up with the fixes and suffer the abuse as a result of trying to make a better product.
#7

Bachmann are well aware of what they should do. But I bet you they don’t do it.
The problem is like life in general.
BS, obfuscation and downright lies always seem to win the day.
What Bachmann should do is stop listening to the “expert” who managed to convince them that his agenda would bring untold glory onto the Company and raise the profit level to heights never before seen with sales to the LS fraternity.

Well, the level of glory promised will not be achieved and the yearned for level of profits will ultimately be the complete opposite of what was hoped for.

#8

Well said Tony! It does appear that Bachmann may have rushed this to market and not done the proper real world testing with a few production line models. And so many wonder why many of us run solid LGB powered lines. While not completely bullet proof, they are damn close. Cheers Mike

#9
Mike Toney said:
Well said Tony! It does appear that Bachmann may have rushed this to market and not done the proper real world testing with a few production line models. And so many wonder why many of us run solid LGB powered lines. While not completely bullet proof, they are damn close. Cheers Mike
Mike.

Can you name an instance where Bachmann have ever done proper “Real World testing” (as in beta testing) with a few “production items” before releasing any item to the publice for sale?

If you can I will give you more than just a kewpie doll. :wink:

#10

Nope, and I doubt they ever will. It would be nice, they get an E for Effort, beautifully loco from the pics I see, but for the money, I can buy better stuff!

#11
Mike Toney said:
Nope, and I doubt they ever will. It would be nice, they get an E for Effort, beautifully loco from the pics I see, but for the money, I can buy better stuff!
Mike,

Do you mean you can get a K27 for that money that’s better?

#12

As Jesus said “the poor will always be with you”.

Same goes with this statement. -Because there seem to be a substantial amount of clueless individuals out there who do not understand, let me walk you through this.

Oh well !

#13

nope, and just like not buying a first year automobile, I wont buy a first year locomotive till I see the bugs are worked out. Not that I am into Colorado NG, which I am not, but I think Bachmann makes more folks mad with locos that have issues, than they would have made more repeat buyers, had they have done proper testing prior to bringing the K to the market. Just my 2 cents. Mike

#14
Mike Toney said:
......... than they would have made more repeat buyers, had they have done proper testing prior to bringing the K to the market. Just my 2 cents. Mike
That is what we have been bashing our heads into the wall trying to get them to do since the first Shay.

So far no luck.

#15

I certainly hope the Bachmann people read these, its evident that we place far more gravity on Dave’s physical evaluations than mere reassurances.

#16
Victor Smith said:
I certainly hope the Bachmann people read these, its evident that we place far more gravity on Dave's physical evaluations than mere reassurances.
I'm not so sure they even read their own forums! well except that one time right before Christmas.... cale