Ralph Berg said:I agree our tax code is too easily manipulated to benefit corporate campaign donors to both political parties. Interesting that GE made all that money and the CEO of GE sits on this administrations economic advisory board. Hhhuuummmm???David Hill said:I want to fix inequities in the tax codes that allow companies like GE to get a 3.2 billion dollar gift from the taxpayer. I want to fix the inequities in the tax code that encourage speculation rather than real investment. Has nothing to do with hating the wealthy. Has nothing to do with "class warfare". I criticize welfare cheats and disability frauds too. You can add to the list the Healthcare and Insurance industries and more things than I can name in a day. Ralph
Hating the wealthy will still not improve your situation. Regardless of how crooked they are or how much of a bonus they get. The only thing I believe is obscene is the businesses Congress gave taxpayer's money to and they sent much of it overseas and to the UAW.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/18/sen-demint-threatens-filibuster-debt-ceiling-vote/ http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/18/treasury-defends-budget-outlook-ratings-service-downgrade/ http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/18/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?hpt=T2 http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/news/1104/gallery.meanest_budget_cuts/index.html?cnn=yes http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/15/paul-ryan-medicare-reform-hocus-pocus/ And David? I have to ask…Why do you hate poor people so much? What did they ever do to you? Or is it that simply since they are poor they are of no use to you? Teddy (not Franklin) Roosevelt thought that the Trusts, like Standard Oil, were a big enough threat to our Republic that he spent much of his presidency working to dismantle them. The modern ‘Conservative’, seems to slaver at the thought of selling the country outright to the big corporations (Conglomerates, not Trusts) in the name of ‘capitalism’, and ‘free markets’… Giving the already rich even more won’t make them hire you. The ‘trickle’ stopped shortly down from the top in the '80s, and I see no evidence that they suddenly became more magnanimous and community minded in the quarter century since. And a lie is a lie no matter who’s pundit is peddling it. BTW, I had my own business for 10 years. Poor people were generally nicer customers to deal with than those better off. And most of the thefts were by affluent brats. As for why I don’t have much respect for the ultra cons, and tea party?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/3446270869_da873af5ea.jpg)
You lay with dogs you get up with fleas. Embrace your loons. Suck up to those who could give a crap that you exist. But don’t demand we all do it.
Quote:I've seen many a poor man start with a street cart and work his way up to store-owner and beyond. A friend of mine was virtually penniless, started his business out of the back of his van and grew it to a major operation with franchises in nearly 50 states over the next 15 or so years. He sold it a few years ago for a tidy sum and hasn't worked a day since. He started unemployed, and ended unemployed. In the middle, he created hundreds of jobs and made a decent living for himself. So yes. I have seen a poor man make good. That's the American Dream, and it happens quite often. A poor man with a good idea can go miles.
... Has a poor man ever given you a job? Can a poor man open a new store/factory in your hometown to hire new employees?
Quote:No, they prefer the Caymans or Swiss banks. No taxes that way. ;)
... A very common misconception among those folks engaged in class warfare is that the wealthy hide their cash in a vault or under their mattress.
Quote:What they're [i]not[/i] doing is investing in the kinds of manufacturing and production that bring good-paying jobs that support a strong middle class. Sure, maybe they build malls. Most the job created there are minimum wage, bottom-tier jobs for teenagers. Maybe they do invest in real estate. How many jobs does that create? Zero. They--like anyone from any income level--are out looking for ways to make their money work for them--to increase their bottom line. Nothing more, nothing less.
... They build shopping malls, apartment buildings, trailer courts, stocks and bonds to bolster business and provide working capital and retirement incomes.
Quote:Excuse me? What a union can and cannot permit depends on the specific contract between the company and the local. Our contracts include a "merit pool" through which hard work is rewarded. It's an adjustment plus or minus to the negotiated base increase. More and more teachers' unions are instituting some level of performance review/merit increase; either because they decided it was a good idea, or because the public is demanding it. Sure, unions have flaws and can potentially reward the lazy. So does nepotism, favoritism, and office politics in general. You don't need a union to reward a sloth. I've seen plenty of examples of dimwits being promoted in non-union environments. (Ask any of our vets on this list. I'm pretty sure they could tell stories of folks they served with who couldn't tie their boots, but got promoted anyway.) There's no job protection in our contracts, no quotas on how many stories we can shoot/edit in a day, nothing like that at all. Our last contract had a very pathetic cost of living adjustment and more favorable terms for laid-off workers.
... Unions do not permit merit promotions, only seniority, so why try hard. Unions protect the lazy.
There are good union contracts, bad union contracts, and I’ve seen negotiations where the union rolled over and played dead, kowtowing to the company’s every request. (Or, in the instance of one TV station, the workers gave up their 401(k) in exchange for being able to wear shorts in hot weather.) (In the long run, it wasn’t a bad trade… the station was so bad to work for that no one was there long enough to become vested anyway.)
It’s a big balancing act. How do you balance corporate needs vs. worker needs vs. government involvement vs. government overinvolvement vs. union interference vs. worker’s rights… There’s a reason these questions have not been answered in 150 years of industrialization in this country. We’re sure as heck not going to answer them on this forum.
With that, I’ve wasted enough of this fine day in front of the computer. I’m going to go run a train.
Later,
K
Kevin said:Good for him. I bet he didn't hire anyone until he moved out of his van and had a few nickles to rub together, did he. Stated differently, he didn't hire anyone while he was still poor.
I've seen many a poor man start with a street cart and work his way up to store-owner and beyond. A friend of mine was virtually penniless, started his business out of the back of his van and grew it to a major operation with franchises in nearly 50 states over the next 15 or so years. He sold it a few years ago for a tidy sum and hasn't worked a day since. He started unemployed, and ended unemployed. In the middle, he created hundreds of jobs and made a decent living for himself. So yes. I have seen a poor man make good. That's the American Dream, and it happens quite often. A poor man with a good idea can go miles.
I was poor, I owned a business. I bought things from my suppliers, and sold them to customers at a modest profit. My suppliers were profiting from my business. So even though I only ever hired a few friends on commission for a few venues, I think this poor person indirectly probably helped give someone a job.
But me? Sometimes I was paying for expensive things that were never delivered because of a supplier doing a bunk or playing accounting games saying I hadn’t paid in full when I had, leaving me on the hook. Sometimes customers played games like stopping payment on a check or reversing their CC AFTER they got their stuff, leaving me on the hook. Sometimes shipping companies lost or destroyed stuff, then the insurance refused to pay, leaving me on the hook. People who probably had more money than me thought it great fun to pilfer and/or damage items then walk away, leaving me with nothing. So I stayed poor, and got poorer. All while working my backside off. I eventually threw in the towel after getting fleeced to the tune of $8K in one year by a combination of the above, plus bank fees.
Rich folks work ‘harder’? The poor guy struggling to keep a roof over his kids’ heads works a lot harder than most rich folks ever will. They just get recompensed less for it. We live in a world that thinks it’s perfectly fine for an overgrowed guy who plays a kid’s game to collect 100+ times the remuneration that the person who educates their children… And you wonder why I don’t think being wealthier means you’re a better person, harder working, or more ‘valuable’ to society?
Quote:Not really. I own my own business too and everyone makes more money than me. It's a business that needs employees to exist..period. So when I get a good one they start at $15 and go to $20 after 2 years. The business made no profit last year and still paid a minimum tax. All the money went to pay for equipment issues, wages, taxes etc. and my just mailed w2 showed gross at a bit over $14000. Why do it...in the hope that it'll generate income later. So I did hire people while I was poor..unless you consider $14k in wages rich.
Good for him. I bet he didn't hire anyone until he moved out of his van and had a few nickles to rub together, didn't he. Stated differently, he didn't hire anyone while he was still poor.
(Stupid rain shower… Hard enough to make me not want to be out in it, but not enough to actually benefit the garden.)
Quote:I can't say for certain, but why not? If you've got an upstart business that really needs two people to become successful, you find someone willing to help or you fail. It doesn't matter that you don't have two nickels to rub together--the business needs two people to have a shot at becoming successful. So the poor man [i]does[/i] hire someone because it's an operational necessity. And the poor man may very likely pay the help before he pays himself, remaining poor while the business builds.
... Stated differently, he didn't hire anyone while he was still poor.
(Thanks, Larry, for giving a personal face to my hypothetical.)
Later,
K
I heard a great analogy today of the situation, we as a Country, are in. Conservatives believe in free enterprise and small government. Liberals believe in taxing the conservatives to share the wealth amongst everybody. And by everybody, I guess I thought they meant Americans or people living and are legal citizens of the United States and probably some others. But when all are money is going to pay a debt to China. How does that help anyone, here?
The merit pay unions are beginning to institute have been standard fare for centuries in the regular business practices. I was making the point though, Kevin, that in a union shop, one can not be promoted, advance in job classification and pay, until the guy that was hired the day before you were is advanced.
Also, if one worker is lazy, his union rep will fight to keep his job. I saw this at the Bethlehem Steel Company when I worked there. Look what happened to the Bethlehem Steel.
Mik - I do not hate anyone (even you 
) but the lazy are leeches on society. Most poor (not the disabled or down on their luck folks) have no incentive to become self-sufficient. It is easier to wait for the first of the month when the check comes in the mail.
BTW, both Roosevelts were Progressive/Liberals. Not judging, just that was their politics.
AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaand we’ve drifted far enough off trains here…
So did anyone else go and actually see the film? 7 outta 10…try the early show!
The closest showing was in Philly. I’ll wait for a broader release or the DVD.
Thankyou very much Bob.
David Hill said:Again, banana oil. How many poor folks do you know personally? Not heard about. Not saw in a store. KNOW. Yes, there are a certain percentage of layabouts. Yes there is a certain percentage of addicts. But there are also veterans. There are good, law abiding people who have been kicked so many times they've forgotten what dignity looks like. There are hard working folks who may not be the brightest, or the best looking, but didn't have a choice in that either. Folks who are poor not because they lack character, but have too much character to screw over somebody else just to get ahead. There are folks who's daddy didn't get them their start. There are folks who don't know what a trust fund is, or a mutual fund, or a retirement fund... because they are more worried about having enough funds to keep the lights on AND buy food for the month.
... Most poor (not the disabled or down on their luck folks) have no incentive to become self-sufficient. It is easier to wait for the first of the month when the check comes in the mail. .....
You can’t have a good paying job when there aren’t any local ones to be had. And many folks can’t just pick up and move halfway across the country for a “maybe”. You can’t really LOOK for a good paying job while you are working 2 or 3 crap jobs at the places that ARE hiring, AND trying to raise your children. Taking on the debt to go back to school isn’t always an option, either.
And what about the children? If it’s about the money, a public funded abortion is cheaper than 18+ years of welfare. If it’s about the value of human life, then shouldn’t a minimum quality of life be assured in the richest country on earth? Too many so called Conservatives want to play God with none of the guilt, and certainly none of the investment or expense.
Do I expect you to understand these simple facts? No. Sadly I’ve become cynical. Folks will believe what they want to believe, regardless of the truth.
You may choose to believe poor folks are lesser human beings, and deserve to have nothing. While you and the rich are somehow superior and deserving of every penny you amass.
I choose to acknowledge the reality that the game is rigged in favor of the haves, and that many of those who profess to care about the have nots often don’t - at least beyond how they can use the situation to enrich themselves. I also choose to speak up in the face of an injustice greater than a few extra dollars from someone’s pocket in taxes. What is a life worth? Is yours really worth more than mine? Do my children love me less than yours do you? Does making me even poorer make you feel even better about those few extra dollars in taxes you may save? You say you don’t hate me. Do you hate Ida and Tony a few doors down? He’s hurt his back, but can’t get disability, and the person he was working for won’t even pay him for the hours he worked before getting hurt. She’s worked since she was 15, now her health is going and she requires medication she can’t afford. Should they go off into the woods and die just so (your) taxes can remain low?
Bob McCown said:Guess you were not heard? :(
AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaand we've drifted far enough off trains here...
David Russell said:No, I didn't see it before I posted. It might have had something to do with taking time to put my thoughts in writing? I don't type very fast, and no updates show up while you're composing. I apologize to BobBob McCown said:Guess you were not heard? :(
AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaand we've drifted far enough off trains here...
Bob McCown said:Fair enough ....... onto a train related subject, sort of........ has anyone, conservative or liberal, purchased "Roundup Super Concentrate" recently? I bought a 32 oz. bottle for $60 bucks. When properly diluted it will yield about $95 worth of product. Well I mixed up a batch according to the instructions, actually about 10% more potent, and sprayed it on the newly emerging weeds and grass on the right-of-way. After 3 days the weeds and grass are just as green and robust as the day I sprayed them. I've used premixed Roundup before and always had great results. Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaand we've drifted far enough off trains here...
walter sarapa said:If the weather has been dry, it could take longer. If it rained too soon, it could have washed off. Ralph
After 3 days the weeds and grass are just as green and robust as the day I sprayed them
Where can I buy some good old Agent Orange? Exposure is not a problem for me anymore.
I just checked. The closest showing right now is an hour away towards Philly. I can stay out of the city so I may go down this week if they have a matinée.