Large Scale Central

Aster/LGB White Pass mike #73

Has anybody here apart from me got one of these locos and would like to talk to me about it?

I am giving some serious thort to obtaining some drivers of the correct diameter to replace the 4mm oversize round things on the LGB chassis/running gear of this model. They might be Aster wheels, or, as we have a dozen or so folks over here in UK who make G1 wheels of all kinds, somebody elses’.

Apologies if this post in the wrong place, so if any of the moderators wishes to remove this post onto another more appropriate forum, I’m easy.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

I’ve got one. But I still don’t know what I’m really going to do with it. I’ve pondered about every possibility that’s come across my mind. I’ve never actually measured the locomotive to see what else doesn’t fit the prototype. My thoughts on the smaller wheels is that you would come up with drivers with unprototypical gaps because they stretched the locomotive to fit the over sized drivers. Generally I’m a poor example of a collector, so much of what I have has been modified in some way. So far I’ve been able to resist doing that to this locomotive. Will I ever sell it for it’s collector value…Probably not as I’ll most likely croak first. Actually, it’s a fairly faithful model of the standard gauge version that Baldwin made. I’ve considered relettering it ( I don’t model the White Pass any how) and weathering it and running it as a standard gauge locomotive with my 50’s stuff. At this point I’m open for suggestions.

Warren - I notice that your loco also has the mis-aligned cylinders and slide-bars, just like mine all had. See the posts on mls about the Shay on e-bay under ‘Rolling stock’.

And for those who don’t look over there -

Quoting myself -

'Sir, as I understand it, being a model engineer and all that stuff - the early plastic LGB mikes had an annoying habit of stripping gears at the drop of a hat - do a search and you’ll see what I mean. That is exactly what happened to my numerous White Pass models. After the first one, on rollers to have a gentle run-in, lasted just 30 seconds before seizing, I put all the subsequent replacements on rollers, too, just to be sure they were going to work. And remember, here in UK this thing was around $5000 - we don’t get the enormous bulk purchase discounts you do over in the USA.

Number two lasted 38 seconds. The third one lasted just one minute and fourteen seconds. I wrote a letter to LGB here in Nurnburg, and copied it to Mr James Tapper of LGBoA, in which I explained that I had carried out a detailed weight distribution test on all axles, and came to the conclusion that the problem lay in the basic design of the articulated chassis. In other words, the mechansim was not up to hauling the extra weight around.

You see, the plastic mike superstructure weighs in at around 3 lbs, but the all-metal ASTER superstructure weighs around 12 lbs. This weight presses down on the extreme ends of the chassis, and any play in the central articulation joint is exacerbated by the downward pressure - this explains why even my fourth and final model has the second and third wheels out of contact with the track…

This problem, plus the self-destructing gear train, made many of the ASTER/LGB models into shelf-queens, including mine. In spite of getting a letter from Herr Richter, that he would ‘stand behind’ the product, I have my heart in my mouth every time I can be bothered to run it - not a good feeling, I assure you. That is something that makes me very bitter whenever I look at it. For that kind of money I could have had the ASTER live-steam mike, factory-built - a real working loco.

Instead I have a big impressive crock of ****. And a model that nobody else makes…yet.

Oh yes, neither Mr Tapper of LGBoA, nor the customer service department of LGB/EPL in Germany could be bothered to respond to my explanatory letter.

Last time I looked in a certain store here in UK there was a pallet-load of them in the corner. Still with the empty spaces where two of mine had been taken out to replace the previous one.

In spite of spending much time in Tokyo, and, like my friend Zubi, privileged to have made the acquaintance of ASTER’s inestimable Tamada-san, I have so far resisted embarassing him by asking what ASTER think about all this. But it cannot have done their previously untarnished reputation for excellence any good at all, especially among those who were unaware that they had nothing to do with the drive mechanism and unaltered LGB drivers of the incorrect diameter.’

About three years ago I wrote a detailed write-up on this loco in mls, and measured it all by comparison with the real thing’s drawings I got from Carl Mulvihill in Skagway. Apart from the wheels, the thing was just about exactly right-on, but then ASTER did the drawings, NOT LGB.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

Surprisingly enough, mine has run perfectly since purchased. It doesn’t have any great amount of time on it, but it has been run more than a couple hours. It’s no shelf queen by a long shot. All my trains are required to earn their keep. I really like how she looks pulling a string of RhB cars.

And she’s right at home with a standard gauge freight.

I’ll have to check out the suggested article because I don’t have a clue what you mean by misaligned cylinders.

Son of a Gun! Warren, I’ve known you for 5 years, near enough, and I had no idea that you had even one steamer!

It must be close to payday. I can’t even pay attention.

Warren - just like mine, which is a lot worse that your’s, I have to say, your cylinder and slide bar unit is not parallel to the track, and the leading axle does not bear down fully on the track as a result.

Mine will haul a regular-sized consist of about 6 Bachmann WP cars, but does not like it…

I’ll send you an excerpt from my letter to the LGBoA and EPL…

best wishes from tac and ig, the birthday boys!

Steve Featherkile said:
Son of a Gun! Warren, I've known you for 5 years, near enough, and I had no idea that you had even one steamer!

It must be close to payday. I can’t even pay attention.


About time you wake up Steve…:smiley: I also own a Bachmann Connie and an Annie. There’s more to me than a bunch of dismals. Note: Last time you were in my basement you were standing beside the Annie…right out in the open…:confused:

:rolleyes:

Tac , me old froot ,
I only just got round to this one (still crocky) .
I must have nearly bumped into you at the well known model shop in the Royal’s Laughing Town ,for 'tis a fact that I bought a tin No 73 , WPYR from the first batch wot arrove there .
Has motion parallel with ground , runs sweetly , run in on rollers then with small loads . I do this with all my locos , and have not had any fail me so far . It was interesting putting the brother Garrat on rollers , luckily I had a mad fit at a show and bought some extra for the purpose .
Having seen , stroked and dribbled over 73 , I have to say that I am quite happy with the model , even though it , along with all my others , now spends its time languishing on a shelf whilst I rebuild my garden . Hah , fat chance .
By the way , Mulvihill’s name is Carl , we met him at his home in Skagway , his lounge is done up like a varnish coach . Nice bloke , we get decals from him .
Mike

Mike Morgan said:
Has motion parallel with ground , runs sweetly , run in on rollers then with small loads . I do this with all my locos , and have not had any fail me so far . Mike
My current one, the fourth in a row, runs like shite, and with its angles-up cylinders and associated slide-bars and floating wheels, looks like shite, too. Not a previous one of mine ever ran for more than 1m 14secs before coming to a grinding - and I MEAN grinding - halt.

The NG/G16 Garratt is totally built by Aster, and does not have to share its works with a plastic lightweight.

Not sure what you mean by the ‘Royals laughing town’… From where I live I go down south as little as possible.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

Ah . Yes . Well , mine’s OK . What can I say ?
Royal=prince
Laugh =ris
Town =boro
I was trying not to give free advertising to Garden Railways of Princes Risborough . Oh , tush , tut and bother , I did it . Oh well .

Mike

Mike Morgan said:
Ah . Yes . Well , mine's OK . What can I say ? Royal=prince Laugh =ris Town =boro I was trying not to give free advertising to Garden Railways of Princes Risborough . Oh , tush , tut and bother , I did it . Oh well .

Mike


I don’t buy anything in UK if I can help it. My ‘mike’ came from Lorenz Schug in Detzem. the UK price was almost £600 more than the price in Germany.

I have just bought a Maerklin Bavarian S3/6 for almost £700 less than the UK price. I gave real blood for this country, I don’t see why I should also give the figurative stuff, too.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

New in this forum…
Hello,
I bought some weeks ago the LGB/Aster White Pass Mikado and seem to have similar problems some of you have also.
My engine is ‘weak’.
It runs extremely slow and doesn’t climb a hill, which was allready caught by all my other engines - even without any wagons stuck.
My idea is to change the motor against a stronger one, maybe Faulhaber or anything else.

Does anybody have made similar experiences and did anybody allready find a solution?

Thanks for your help and best regards from Germany
Michael

If it is unable to pull a hill without wagons a new motor won’t help the problem. Something is binding and that needs to be fixed. Look at your cylinders as Terry mentioned and see if they are parallel. Be sure you have thoroughly lubricated everything and the motion and siderods are not binding on anything. If that’s all ok then look in the gears to see that they are aligned properly and properly lubricated. Terry has had problems with his, but I’ve had mine since they were first released and I’ve never had any problems with mine and it pulls quite ok as you can see from the above pictures.

Oh, and welcome aboard. :slight_smile:

Warren Mumpower said:
Oh, and welcome aboard. :)
Thank you and thank you for your advices, which I followed during last weekend. So, everything is perfectly lubricated, the cylinders are parallel, but still the locomotive is even without tender not strong enough to climb my hills. I would like to ask you, how steep your hills are. What I additionally recognized: When entering curves (radius 2 and bigger) the locomotive becomes much slower, not only a bit, but really much. Any idea? Regards Michael

Mine typically runs on flat land. My current layout is indoors and is flat. The layout pictured has one grade that’s about 1 1/2% on a 40’ diameter curve. What you have just described sounds like a torture test for a steam locomotive. Most steam locomotives like wider radius curves and tend to be somewhat flatlander locomotives. The geared loco’s are the exception. When you have both a tight radius and a steep grade it’s not going to pull much up that hill. These locomotives will handle 8’ diameter ok (my minimum) but like 10’ even better. I would suggest you keep the grades below 2%. It’s not an overly heavy locomotive which also hampers it’s pulling power.

My recomendation is if you are running on curves less than 8’ diameter and have grades greater than 2% get a Shay or other geared locomotive. For rod locomotives I would suggest keeping it to the 0-4-0 to 2-4-2 wheel arrangement. But these locomotives won’t be able to pull their shadow up the grades unless you weight them. It’s just like the real railroads. You have to have the right loco for the job. The best outside of the geared locos are the small diesels. Most of these will walk up tight curves on a grade without complaining.

Warren Mumpower said:
Mine typically runs on flat land. ..
Okay, Warren, that's completely different to my layout. I run outdoors only and my locomotives really have to 'work' for their money. Even the old LGB Mogul runs rather well uphill and pulls 4 4-axle-waggons. The Bachmann Consolidation even pulls 8-10 4-axle-waggons. Only this LGB/Aster-locomotive pulls nothing. I will reduce the diameters as far as I can and the grade but I have a bad feeling, because even on a very, very flat grade the Mikado starts sliding even without their tender. Maybe I will sell this locomotive to somebody, who runs it on a total flat layout only.

Anyway. Thank you for your help.

Regards
Michael

If by chance you have a friend that has the plastic LGB Mike, try that on your layout. If it runs and pulls ok then the problem is your locomotive as they both have the same mechanism.

Warren Mumpower said:
If by chance you have a friend that has the plastic LGB Mike, try that on your layout. If it runs and pulls ok then the problem is your locomotive as they both have the same mechanism.
I'll try to find somebody who owns this locomotive and will check what you proposed. Thank you, Warren.