Large Scale Central

Aristo's adventure in "O" scale

General Discussion
#1

Aristo-Craft has a new product line – and it ain’t 1:29!
For those getting TrainWorld’s e-mail on their “specials”, they have a new one: “Ready Made Trains” in O gauge. Yes, the brand name is RMT or “Ready Made Trains” and the TrainWorld email promotion clearly attaches Aristo-Craft as the parent company. That’s right, “O” scale. Respecting clarity over agreement, how will the current “O” gauge consumers respond to RMT products considering what the initials represent? They certainly know what A-T-L-A-S represents. Now, we are back to our previous thread of what is the market among current devoted HO, N, and O scalers for varied scales that simply use track that does not fit. So what is the “O” scale market that Aristo considers fallow for growth under this label and price point? If the current “O” folk have problems with our off scales and track gauge is this Aristo’s answer for product acceptance? Is this an admission that pushing 1:29 on the "O"ers just does not meet the scale hobbiest’s criteria? Is Aristo admitting they need to go where the action really is among the current model hobbiests: That’s true scale and true track? Again, where’s the general public as a marketing target? Nada. Ah, empty Christmas windows.

Meanwhile the name Ready Made Trains…ouch!

What do our readers know about Aristo-Craft’s latest announcement?

Wendell

#2

RMT has been around for a while now. Some of the molds go back to the days of Marx trains so it aint news to us 3 railers . I was looking at them when I was dabling with Marxism.

#3

Wendell,
this was announced about two years ago. The owner of the ‘O’ scale line is/has been an ‘employee’ of Aristo-Craft, assisting them at conventions. I believe that Aristo are marketting the product line without actually owning it.

#4

Two years ago announced? Apparently, the product didn’t sell.

So the unstated is why is TrainWorld taking on promotion of the product from Aristo-Craft, Corp. – a known 1:29 marketeer? I doubt TrainWorld would so clearly connect Aristo-Craft to a hokey non-serious product name without an OK from Aristo-Craft. If Lewis thought it would depreciate their product line he wouldn’t do it. So what’s up that won’t end up depreciating Aristo-Craft as a serious supplier of large scale products. I can’t imagine MTH marketing “Ready Made Trains” and keeping a straight face doing so.

Amazing PR move in advertising. Hey, there’s a new product: “Ready Made Motorcycles.” Can’t wait.

Wendell

#5

Actually, Wendell, the RMT line is doing quite well in the 0 Gauge world.

#6

“Actually, Wendell, the RMT line is doing quite well in the 0 Gauge world.” - Steve F.
I’m surprized. I’ll eat my spinach on this one.

Still, does that mean Aristo is joining MTH in enlarging their presence in the hobby – which may be a moot point since they are selling “O” , or at least advertising they are doing so. If it works they have enlarged their product base.

Personally, I wish ATLAS found 1:20 or 1:24 or 1:32 to their liking and started producing Western products.

#7

I have been told, by more than one person Stateside who was involved in manufacture or distribution of large scale trains, that the hobby is in decline. Maybe they are right: maybe wrong.

The smaller scales, it seems, are still doing fine. It would seem, in times of rising warehouse and distribution costs, to market more than one related hobby product could be good business sense.

The RMT train range seems pretty good to me, although I don’t think it has hit the UK shores.

#8

Wendell, I’m really not sure if you are upset or annoyed with Aristo’s decision to start a toy train O gauge line. Seems like you are somehow offended by the name, too, which I don’t get. But whatever, as they say, it is what it is.

From what I have seen, these look like silly little trains, but that’s kind of what I like about them. They look like fun and it appears they are going after the north toy train people. Lots of New York, New Jersey, PA, and CT lines. Almost want a Metro North caboose.

I like some of the structures, too. The Statue of Liberty looks really nice and I like that they are selling it with the entire base, not just the stone base you normally see with ol Lady Liberty. It also appears to me that some of the same drawings are being used for the 2-bay hoppers, particularly, from the 1:29 line. Personally, I would like to see Aristo offer the 2 bay hopper artwork on the RMT hopper for New Haven on their 1/29 2 bay hopper.

Eggliners are reportedly one of the best sellers by aristo. The RMT trains appear to be following a little of that concept.

On your other point, I completely agree: Starter sets are what need to be pushed. I asked Lewis about their sets recently and was told that the 0-4-0 is getting a gearbox upgrade and they will have more sets for next year. That’s also good because there is a major hole in the starter set category that used to be filled by LGB. If Bachmann puts their upgraded chasis (metal gears, better pilot truck) in all their future starter sets, that too will help to boost entry in to our large scale hobby. However, the major stumbling block I see is the track cost for newbies. Almost $10 a foot? Good bye large scale… :frowning:

#9

If the hobby is in decline I am not too surprised by the news, look at all the hits its taken in the last few years.

  1. EPLs demise left a gaping hole.
  2. Marklins apparent determination to be a beautique brand, expensive and exclusive.
  3. The catastrophic effect the rise in track prices are having, really $7-$10 a foot?
  4. The catastophic effect the rise of prices in general ar having, really B’mann an $700 Forney?
  5. The emphisis towards ever widening radius requirements which has the net effect of saying if you dont have an acre, dont bother applying. We all know this isnt the facts but thats the message, even Garden Railroads “small layout” contest the winning layouts were actually huge IMHO, and thats very irritating for us small layout guys.
  6. and finally the effects the recession has had on everyones personal income and the effect its had on their spendable income, or lack there of.

How do we fix this, I dunno but IMHO a few ideas that couldnt hurt.

  1. Get the economy back on its feet, if I knew how to do this I wouldn’t be sitting in Cubicle-ville with Dilbert and his crew.
  2. Offer items that the real average household can afford. Whats desperatly needed in LS is a range like EPLs ole TOYTRAIN line, durable and affordable to mere mortals, thats WHY the smaller scales are doing better, there is more offerings across the priceline. LS seams to be bring a trust fund with you, really Marklin a $700 plastic 2 axle dismal ?
  3. Acknowledge that MOST people DO NOT HAVE a spare acre of land and ENCOURAGE small to moderate layout building! How the hell else do you expect to grow the dam hobby? This is a problem is HO as well, despite the fact that rags like MR or RMC only seam to publish basement size layouts the actual reality is that 75% + of all HO or N layouts are 4’x8’ Plywood Pacific sized but you’d never know that looking at the rags.
  4. Finally something has to be done regarding track prices, I see this as the Achilles Heel of the hoby, no track = no layout, no matter what the size of your yard. The solution for this is not going to be easily solved as long as metal prices are high. Maybe a re-emphisis on battery power and a simplified RC control on inexpensive plastic track? I’m not talking 6 C cells, I mean small computer type batteries and a simple BTE type control, Speed, direction, whistle, period. seams the technology has come a great deal forward in the last few years and a very compact battery RC combo could be fitted into even the smallest of Stainzs. Anyway thats my rant.
#10

Vic,

My friend is looking at using aluminum track for track powered trains. I’m skeptical, but it isn’t my money he’s using, so I’ll watch from afar.

In my real world example, I am putting together a train set for my sister this year because there are none in what I consider a reasonable price range. I’m using a used 2020 Stainz, 3019 mail car and a bachmann gondola kit. I’m still not much under my target of $150 for the set. I have the track, so I saved a little there.

I agree, the new offerings marketed as “LGB” seem highly priced for what they are. I am hopeful that Bachmann will incorporate their upgrades to the 4-6-0 in to their regular big hauler line.

The two latest offerings from Bachmann are a good examples: The 2-4-2T Lyn and the Anniversary: both run on 4’ curves, and were previously offered. Upgrades to both should attract new buyers, as well. And the other love-to-hate, Thomas line is at least getting exposure in convential retail markets, like toystores. That’s good.

What I remind my doom and gloom friends is this: I’m in large scale and have been for over 25 years. The hobby isn’t declining for me.

#11

Personally I think Aristo’s entry into “O” is fantastic. While I have no desire for it, I believe it will boost Aristo’s position as a model/toy train company and therefore make a significant “Large Scale” supplier stronger. We do not need any of the current suppliers going belly-up like Lehman.

“Bully” for them!

#12

I think the RMT locos are cool. As soon as I can get 2 nickles to rub together, I’m gonna get one to bash into a critter for my 0 gauge layout.

#13

Mark and Victor-
Thanks for the responses. Yes, annoyed is a fair descriptor.
Manufacturer’s promotion efforts, spartan as they are, will determine the growth or non-growth of the hobby.
Victor’s comment re: the lack of an entry level product - such as the TOY TRAIN line - is accurate. Mark focused on the need for starter sets. Both would accomplish the same outcome. The large scale hobby, in my opinion, is no longer promoted with starter sets and efforts to merchandise employing simple opportunities for exposure to the public – such as LGB’s past widespread image in store windows at Christmas time. That was a no brainer. What’s the cost to provide a train, circle of track, and a power pack that any store employee can turn on and off, as a trade for the corprate brand identity statement accompanying the train. Where’s the elevated train at Burger King? Red Robin? etc. There is one at the Buena Park McDonalds next to Knott’s Berry Farm, Calif. Just ask any fast food outlet if they have been approached by anyone as to installing an elevated train in their store. “HUH? What train?” The McDonald’s managment reported the train continues to be the reason families use their store vs. one two miles away that’s without.

Victor’s right: Track prices are a obstacle. Likely the demand is not strong enough to force competitive pricing. My guess is even if they were lowered, those who already have large scale would be the major customers.

#14

Vic,
quote: “…really B’mann an $700 Forney?”

The shipping distance from China to the United States is roughly the same as China to Australia. Bachmann Mallets may be had in the States for $450.00. A Climax in the States may be had for $720.00. A Forney may be had for around $700.00. All three locomotives downunder will cost you $1250.00 each. On this price you may get a ‘street’ price discount of say, $50.00, maybe!!!

The thing that kills the hobby out here is the total lack of discounting. All dealers sell withing 10% of the distributor’s recommended market price. Is it no wonder most pay the high shipping cost from the States and buy from Stateside dealers. We, the hobbyist have been blamed locally for the decline in sales in the hobby by not supporting the local hobby shop and yet it is they who still maintain ridiculously high prices. Taking shipping as a major component being equal to both countries, then the main difference is profit margin. It seems that profit incentive is higher than survival instinct for the shops.

#15

Tim…just thinking unless BM has a direct distributer in Aus. Then said loco goes from China to BM USA and then to your country. Already has alot of miles on it before you see it.

#16

What I dont understand is we do have very affordable trains. Look at Hartlands line especially the mini series. Put a Mack engine with a few Mini flats, gondola’s ect… You can do that for under $100. Take some 4ft curves and some straights and you can create a nice layout. No its not that K27 pulling a string of passenger cars that one wants or the 20ft sweeping curves, or the 1000ft of track. Instead its a layout that anyone can sit back and watch some trains running through a garden. Its a good start for the new person on a budget. We need to go back in time. Its nice seeing how the hobby has gotten better but it also comes with a higher price tag. Whats wrong with being happy with something small and inexpensive. If I could not afford the stuff i have today I would go the Hartland route. In ways I did start that way. Look overseas. A lot of the layouts use small curves in a small space yet G scale seems to be big overseas. What I dont understand about Hartland is you dont see them advertise much or most dealers dont offer Hartland.
Maybe Aristo is going the O scale route in hopes it does well and help support their large scale offerings.

#17

Shawn:

Good thinking and well stated. Thanks for putting the focus back on the hobby’s basics.

As to Hartland, I have repeatedly read that the Hartland model railroad operation is a small part of a larger plastics molding company. Perhaps expansion of the model line is inhibited by some larger corporate policies or interests.

The Aristo Train Engineer controller is listed as the controller for the RMT line. At least in that small way, Aristo does benefit.

As to why Aristo is in this ‘new’ business (for at least a couple of years now), just look at the number of scales and gauges Bachmann and Accucraft successfully produce. Why wouldn’t Aristo try a little of the same strategy?

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#18

Shawn the only thing with HLW is that unless you know where to look they can be very hard to find, unlike LGB very few shops stock them, the neat thing about the Toytrain lineup was that they were available thru EPLs fairly extensive shop network and got alot of exposure. There are other low price options, Bachmanns Bug Hauler range of 1/22.5 fare are good examples. Problem is that newbies get hung up on all the hyperbola about buy the “widest-largest-biggest even if you can’t afford it or don’t have room for it you must buy it anyways” mentality that pervades the LS scene these days, although I do find it ironic and humorous that Aristos biggest seller is the ultra-silly Egg-liner.

#19

Victor say’s…“Problem is that newbies get hung up on all the hyperbola about buy the “widest-largest-biggest even if you can’t afford it or don’t have room for it you must buy it anyways” mentality that pervades the LS scene these days”.

Yep, agreed. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Biggest curves I have are 8’ diameter. I run Shays, Mikado’s, Spectrum 2-6-6-2’s and K-27’s pulling big AMS coaches. Not a complaint from anyone including my fellow club members, but to some on-line I’ve committed a crime against nature.

I hope the O-line helps Aristo reach others who have not considered large scale…Maybe they could put a coupon in the box for a 10% off a starter set!

#20

Vic I always wondered why Hartland never promoted their stuff more especially when you see how expensive everyone else is. Its a good oppertunity for them to jump in with there affordable line. Why is it most retailers dont sell Hartland.