I am repairing an Aristocraft SD45
The end two axles in one block are spinning so I assume a couple of bad gear blocks.
I have taken off the sideframes and rear cover plate but the motors and gear blocks do not fall out. The end ones are loose but the center is still very tight in the brick.
Any suggestions.
Stan
Motor is soldered in, you need to unsolder the motor tabs to release it. Look for a long slot in each side.
So the axle spin (not just the wheels)? If the gearboxes are shot, you are better off ordering an entire motor block as a replacement.
Call Navin at crest-electronics.com … under the contact tab you can find email and phone info.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Motor is soldered in, you need to unsolder the motor tabs to release it. Look for a long slot in each side.
So the axle spin (not just the wheels)? If the gearboxes are shot, you are better off ordering an entire motor block as a replacement.
Call Navin at crest-electronics.com … under the contact tab you can find email and phone info.
Greg
Greg
Indeed. Could not easily get to the solder locations so I broke the motor contact straps at the top and was able to remove the motors and gear blocks.
Interesting construction. Indeed two of the blocks the axles spin. Next up is to remove the wheels and look inside the gear boxes to see what failed. Clearly they used red lock tight on the screws holding the wheels to the axles so some heat will be needed.
Is motor block failure common on these units?
Stan
No, actually those blocks are bulletproof…
BUT
If you have wiring issues, you will see this.
The situation is that the motor power is interrupted to one block, and the other block drags the loco… the blocks are so powerful, few people notice.
So by dragging the other block, you rip the teeth off the worm gear (the worm is metal, so the worm gear goes first).
I’ve seen this a number of times, and people blame the blocks for being weak, but it’s always been power interruption in my experience.
Regards, Greg
Richard
Thanks. I decided to rebuild the trucks with new gears.
Greg
Sorry for the delay. These locomotives are not high on my priority but in time I will get them back in service. One is back on the track using a good truck from each locomotive. One locomotive had broken gears and the other a burned out motor.
These locomotives were not especially taken care of well but I think I found the reason for the gear problem.
George’s WWW site was very helpful. Turns out the grease in the boxes was totally dry. No grease and it does not take much for the Celron gears to wear out. Some new gears and new grease and these locomotives will be as good as new.
Stan
Interesting, most stay lubed for life, but it’s a well known fact that Aristo quality control and consistency was not top notch.
Thanks for the feedback on what was wrong, it helps the “database”…
Greg
Greg
In this case I do not think this was an Aristocraft problem. There was plenty of old dry grease in the gear boxes.
I would put the cause on the user who owned the locomotive before I got them. I seriously doubt that they ever saw a drop of oil over their entire life.
Had the axles been oiled from time to time a little oil would have gotten into the gear boxes and kept the grease more liquid.
There is no substitute to proper maintenance.
And even with proper maintenance over time Celron gears will wear out.
Stan
yes Stan but at one point i thought i read some were that aristo used a poor grease. my new 45 had little to non in them. so at $49 to get spare motors and gear boxs from rld i found good ins.
The Aristo instructions do say the motor blocks do not need lubrication. I say bovine excrement! I open mine up from time to time to check them. Usually the grease is fine, just slung off the gears, so I put it back onto the gears. And I put a small drop of heavy gear oil on the motor bearings and wheel bearings.
Yes, Stan, it was an Aristo issue. They are supposed to be lifetime lubricated, and with grease not oil (although you should put some oil on the axles to avoid a different problem)
Also, adding grease is not a user-serviceable item, since you just took them apart yourself, you cannot disagree.
Some people have drilled a hole for grease and then put in a rubber plug.
Not a bad idea, but the proper grease inside should last a lifetime.
Bad grease, not enough grease, whatever, Aristo issue.
Greg
I have two Aristocraft FA-1s that I may just drill a hole in the motor block so they can be serviced. I would take them apart to service them but they really aren’t made to take apart!
Different gearboxes, and not as robust, but properly lubed will last a good while.
Greg
I remember, ages ago, when I First got my FA’s I read someplace you should open them up and lube them good. I did that and have left them alone ever since. 20 years old and still going!
I understand Jerry. Once would me more than enough!
The old Aristo-Craft motor blocks used on the vintage FA-1, RS-3, U25-B and others are easy to open and lubricate. These are the ones with the extended axles on the wheels that ride in brass/bronze bushings in the side frames. There are two screws at the end of the top motor block case half and four on the bottom. With the top half of the of the motor block case removed everything is accessible.
These old blocks are very durable and easy to maintain. They can be lumpy running because of wobbly wheels which can chew up the side frame bushings. I was able to buy some replacement bushings and chrome wheels from Navin when he worked for Aristo-Craft, but I don’t know whether they are still available. Most people just replace them with the new ball bearing motor blocks.
Although not a common problem with the older blocks, split axle shafts on the drive gear can be repaired with a metric tube brass collar using the same method to repair USA Trains drive gears. This repair can only be used with the fixed axles, as the collars will not fit in the pivoting gear boxes. However the axles can be disassembled and interchanged.
The newer ball bearing motor blocks are similar, but have fine un-insulated track power wires (AA and Z) between the motor block cases halves.
These wires can overheat during heavy and/or prolonged use. They can melt and stick to the case halves, then bend or break when the block is opened. I replaced a few by bending some fine brass rod to fit.
It appears in this image that the motor was mounted over one of the wires. However as both blocks were like this, I assume the wires heated and extended with severe use. The wires would then bend, touch the motor block case, cause a short circuit, and melt.
I also worked on two of four, new ball bearing blocks than ran lumpy. It turned out the shafts in the pivoting gear boxes were bent. As it would be impossible to bend a two inch chrome steel shaft in service without breaking the plastic gear box case, I assume they were bent at the factory when the worm gear was punched on. Fortunately these replacement motor blocks are used on the rear of a CPR FA-1 and FB-1 that are run as a set. So by removing the bent shafts from the gear cases of the rear motor blocks, this pair of diesels now run smoothly with three axles on each unit powered.
Over the years I have tried a number of greases to lubricate the drive gears in these motor blocks. Some flung off, others to turned to oil when agitated. The best I have found so far is the LGB gear lubricant grease. I have looked for the Mobil synthetic grease that several posters have recommended, but have yet to find it here in Canada.
Another good grease is the NG Gear Gel, which is real “clingy” but liquifies under pressure, so stays on the gears, but lubes like oil under pressure, just at the point of the contact, then back to gel.
Not cheap, but cheaper than packing gearboxes completely full of grease.
Just another alternative.
Greg
