Large Scale Central

Aristocraft Dash 9/SD45/ Mallet/Gearbox Grease Port Inst.

General Discussion
#1

Hello, I don’t know if this subject has been brought up before or not but I know there are several folks out there who own one of the following locomotives and might be interested in installing a grease port to preserve the lifespan of the gears in these locomotives, especially if you run in hot environments and pull heavy trains.
These include,
Aristocraft,
Dash 9,
SD45
2-8-2
Mallet (2-8-8-2)
(There may be others with similar gearboxes also)
I have heard folks talk about the fear of gear failure in these Aristocraft locomotives due to the inability to grease the gears. The gearboxes are supposed to be sealed and never need grease.
We’ll I can tell you from repairing over 65 locomotives that this is as from the truth as you can get. Almost half of the locomotives gearboxes were completely dry on new locomotives I worked on.
So I decided to find a way to apply grease easily without disassembling the locomotive drive more than once.
I knew I had to drill grease ports but didn’t know how. So I began a long journey of educating myself on every part of these drives and now all our locomotives are able to be greased without disassembly.
I know this is a lot of information but I thought I would share the procedure with all of you so as to save as many drives as possible.
Especially since parts are scarce now that Aristocraft is partially gone.
This is the way I disassemble and drill grease ports on the above mentioned locomotives.
THIS JOB IS TEDIOUS AND TIME CONSUMING AND NEEDS TO BE DONE BY EXPERIENCED PEOPLE. THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IS SIMPLY AN AID AND A SUGGESTION. WE ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES TO ANYONES EQUIPMENT DUE IMPROPER OR CARELESS DISASSEMBLY OR REASSEMBLY. THIS JOB SHOULD BE DONE BY AN EXPERIENCED TECHNICIAN.
THIS CAN ALSO VOID NEW EQUIPMENT WARRANTIES.
SO PERFORM THIS IMPROVEMENT AT YOUR OWN RISK!

  1. Remove all bottom plate screws (8)
  2. Using a flashlight, find and unsolder all clips that attach the motor leads to the power strips that are connected to the frame drive box.
    (You will find them between the motor and gearboxes at the bottom)
    They are rather hard to get to and in a tight spot so you will need a smaller soldering iron.
  3. Make sure all leads are unsoldered and motors are completely loose. Then gently wiggle the gearboxes and motors as one big unit (all together) and remove them from the box.
  4. Make sure to keep everything in a line and replace it in the same spot it came out of. (In other words, don’t mix up the gearboxes or the motors) Make very sure to mark the top of each motor so that they don’t get reversed (turned upside down with opposing polarity) when removing gearboxes. This is easy to do and a motor turned upside down on reassembly can cause a short and you will have to disassemble the whole drive again.
  5. Slide one gearbox off the motor shaft at one end.
  6. Remove the two screws on the wheels and remove the wheels.
    BE AWARE AND CAREFUL AS THE SCREWS USED BY ARISTOCRAFT ARE KNOWN TO BREAK OFF THE HEADS DUE TO AN ABUNDANCE OF GLUE USED TO HELP HOLD THE SCREWS IN TIGHTLY. THIS WAS DUE TO WHEELS SLIPPING ON TAPERED AXLES. NEVER USE EXCESSIVE PRESSURE. IF THE HEADS BREAK YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE THEM DRILLED OUT OR REPLACE THE AXLE HALF.
    THERE HAVE BEEN POSTS ON HOW TO DO THIS SAFELY AND YOU MAY WANT TO READ UP ON IT FIRST.
  7. Remove the 4 long screws from the gearbox. (2 each side of gearbox)
    DO NOT SLIDE GEARBOX APART YET!
  8. These gearboxes have 1 small ball bearing electrical pickup and 1 spring in the plastic near the outside edge of the axle hole on both sides. ( 2 per gearbox)
    SLOWLY AND GENTLY SLIDE THE GEARBOX APART ON ONE SIDE AT A TIME AND WATCH THAT YOU DO NOT LOOSE THE BALL BEARING AND SPRING WHEN PULLING THE AXLES OUT. LIKE KADEE SPRINGS, THEY CAN FLY A LONG WAY AND GET LOST EASY. REMOVE BALL BEARINGS AND SPRINGS.
  9. Remove the axle/gear and worm gear keeping them in the same position for reassembly.
  10. Reassemble the gearbox with 2 long screws.
  11. Drill the size hole you feel you will need, space wise, to apply grease into the center bottom where the big main gear was.
  12. Remove the 2 screws, separate the gearbox and clean out any debris and smooth any edges.
  13. Replace the worm gear and put the springs back in.
  14. Use a small amount of conductive grease on the ball bearings and put them back on top of the springs.
  15. Slide the axle/gear back into the axle holes gently making sure the ball bearings and springs are compressed and stay put.
  16. After sliding both sections back together, replace the 4 long screws without over tightning.
  17. Slide the motor shaft back into the gearbox exactly as it was removed.
  18. Do all the other gearboxes in the same way.
  19. When all gearboxes are finished, replace the wheels (making sure to put the lightest loktight on the threads for future removal, if needed and don’t forget to quarter all wheels on steam engines) Then slide the motor/wheels/gearbox assembly back into the frame exactly as you removed it with all gearboxes in the same spots they came out of.
  20. MAKE SURE YOUR MOTORS ARE REPLACED AS MARKED FOR CORRECT POLARITY AND THE TRUCK ASSEMBLY IS THE CORRECT DIRECTION FOR CORRECT POLARITY ALSO.
    MAKE SURE ALL MOTORS AND GEARBOXES ARE SEATED PROPERLY AT THE FRAME BOTTOM OR THE DRIVE WILL BIND OR RUN NOISILY.
  21. Resolder the motor leads and bench test for binding.
    SHOULD RUN SMOOTH AND IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION.
    Make sure the floating gearboxes move freely side to side.
  22. Mark and drill holes in the bottom plate above the existing gearbox holes and replace the cover and screws.
  23. Test run the drive by applying power to the power strips on top and once again, make sure that the floating gearboxes are free to move side to side and that there is no loud noise or binding. If the motor block starts getting too warm, it’s binding somewhere and you need to stop it and go back in and find out where it’s binding.
  24. Finally, grease the gears and put in a small rubber plug for the size hole you drilled in the bottom plate.
    (Or use electrical tape like I did although it’s not the best idea especially if you run outdoors)
  25. Put a drop of oil on the axles where they enter the gearbox so the ball bearing and spring are lubricated.
    HOPE THIS HELPS YOUR LOCOMOTIVES RUN FOR MANY MORE YEARS.
    Check out the photos as they may help and Happy Railroading!
#2

Ken, Ken, Ken, the Aristo gearboxes are bullet proof, and never need lube. It says so, right here. You trying’ to stir sumpin up? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

The is is good stuff, thank you. Even my truly bulletproof post war Lionel stuff needs a periodic soup job. I’m dating myself by using that term, aren’t I.

Thank you for doing the research and for sharing it here.

#3

I have never found an Aristo gearbox “Dry” but I have not found a lot of grease on the gears.

Did you find a supply for rubber plugs? That would help.

The most important lubrication I have found is oil on the axles so the ball bearing power pickup does not gouge a groove in the axle:

#4

Steve, thanks for the great comment. I know it’s been said they don’t need greasing but I have never found a model train gearbox that was bulletproof. Ken

Greg, I just spoke to Barry Olsen at Barry’s Big Trains in Phoenix as he a close friend and supports our train program. He says he has different size plugs for sale and also may have the equipment to drill out broken screw heads on axles. His phone number is; 623-936-6088. Thanks for the photos and comments. Ken

#5

I’ll contact Barry, thanks.

Ken, there’s been a ton written on these trucks, but the best way I have found to not break the screw heads is to heat them so that the Loctite Red melts, and allows the screws to be loosened. My friend RJ DeBerg got a small hobbyists pinpoint torch and heating the screw head for a few seconds does the trick… heating a screwdriver tip and then using that is a distant second in terms of success.

You might want to read my web page on these:

http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=215&Itemid=248

Regards, Greg

#6

Greg, Thanks for that needed and helpful information on the Benz O Matic ST500 and how to remove the screws successfully out of the Aristocraft prime mover. I had no idea that anyone had a website with info.on this subject. You have a fantastic website on the subject and I fully intent to use this idea in the future. I hope others will folks will read this great information also. Great ideas!
Thanks again! Ken

#7

Greg Elmassian said:

Ken, there’s been a ton written on these trucks, but the best way I have found to not break the screw heads is to heat them so that the Loctite Red melts, and allows the screws to be loosened. My friend RJ DeBerg got a small hobbyists pinpoint torch and heating the screw head for a few seconds does the trick… heating a screwdriver tip and then using that is a distant second in terms of success.

Master Greg,

Have you tried using a hot soldering iron with a size appropriate tip, works good for me…

Michael (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

#8

Holy crap

Greg has a website dedicated to large scale trains?

#9

Actually if you use the proper screw bit and turn the screw tighter it will break the thread locker bond then you back it out. Thread locker bonds as you insert it …ahhh never mind I don’t have pictures or a website.

I said:insert

#10

Well Greg, tried and proven! Your right, the heat idea works! I had a screw that was really stuck and it came right out.
Now I’ve never tried the tightning and then loosening idea that David suggested but I will next chance I get.
Thanks guys! Ken

#11

This heat trick works on super glue too. When I was pulling ear wires from pearls I would heat up the tips of a pair of needle nose pliers and hold the posts.

John

#12

Loctite red requires a lot of heat applied on and off (so as not to melt the gear in the center of the axle) as Greg’s website shows. Never tried it on Super Glue though.

#13

Michael, I tried the heated screwdriver tip way, and it was much less successful, even when heating the tip of the screwdriver to red hot.

You are relying on transferring the heat from the screwdriver to the screw, and you need a very intimate fit to do that, but physics is working against you because the tip is the end of a long metal rod that is pulling the heat away faster than you can transfer it to the screw head.

Getting things even hotter ruins the temper of the screwdriver and can start melting the handle, ask me how I know. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

The pinpoint flame of the torch allows you to put the heat right on the screw and fast. The problem with trying other methods that sometimes work is you don’t know if just using a screwdriver will work or not unless you either remove the screw, or break the head off.

I use the torch every time now on “virgin” screws. Then I replace them with nice stainless screws with heads that won’t strip as easily as the cheap stock screws.

I’ve also found that after lapping the axles to the wheels, and using a good star type lockwasher, no Locktite is needed.

Regards, Greg

#14

You could hold the screw driver on the screw and heat the screw driver (bigger target)

#15

Flame then gets all over the driver and you still have the shaft of the screwdriver pulling heat away faster than the interface between the screwdriver and the screw.

Let me make it more clear: the interface between the screwdriver tip and the screw can NEVER conduct heat as well as the solid metal shaft of the screwdriver itself. This is the fundamental point.

And the flame is pinpoint, and you hold it in the center of the screw, much easier than pointing it at the side of the cylindrical screwdriver shaft and thus spreading it out as it “splits” over the shaft.

Greg

#16

Greg,

I didn’t mention a screwdriver did I? A voltage enriched, HOT, pencil type soldering iron works for me… The torch has merit and works, but could be problematic I suspect for some. The soldering iron has mass, sustainable heat, small diameter longish foot print, is easy to wield and or control and most of us have one.

Have you tried a soldering iron for the aforementioned purpose?

I found this method very helpful years ago working with metal geared RC servos. Early gasoline powered planes were notorious for vibration anomalies, metal to metal abrasion and such. Removing the servo control arm retaining screw from the servos output shaft of said servo was often a problem due generally to over zealous and or liberal application of a thread-locker. I saved many a servo for many a modeler and advised them to use care and small screw thread-lockers instead of the scale red stuff.

Michael

#17

Michael, I sort of answered your post and Seans together, he did mention the screwdriver.

Have not tried a nice pointed iron, once the heat is worked out, might be safer than the torch. Any idea what temp you ran it to? Mine will only go to about 850 or 900 F.

I’ll try it next time, have several nice irons, a Pace is my best one, have the Hakko and of course the consumer grade stuff.

Greg