I live in a major metropolitan area of over 3 million people…There is not a single hobby shop with any Aristo in the window. Never really was.
Actually that is almost true…There is one hobby shop that has the same half-dozen Aristo boxes at 5x reasonable prices that have been on the shelf since I started in the hobby well past a decade ago.
Maybe they are dying, I don’t know. But I think this was a wise choice…In fact they are late to the party as others have been there for a while.
The bottom line on prices the buying public pay is what is important.
I checked a few prices comparing the “new” discounted AristoCraft website prices with the same things advertsied in the latest issue of GR by the major discount advertisers. They turned out to be much the same. A few dollars variation here and there in the US$400 price of the Dash 9 for example.
I doubt any AristoCraft dealers will be pleased with that scenario.
At least Aristo is still intent on manufacturing. A major ‘rags to riches to rags’ company has a different philosophy. They firstly announce a new product (generally a repaint on an existing line). They then gauge actual instore customer orders with their dealers. If sufficient numbers to start production then they produce the actual number of cars ordered. If insufficient actual orders, the project is cancelled. This company blames their customers for not ordering the items cancelled.
Most likely Aristo see their dealer network as the problem. If dealers had instock items, then Aristo would not have to have a wharehouse inventory. Items on Aristo’s shelves are not money in the bank. Thus more orders from dealers and its a scratch my back and I will scratch your’s.
So why aren’t dealers stocking AristoCraft products? (Yes, I know that is a rhetorical question.)
Answer. The big box stores seem to be rapidly dropping out of the equation.
So why is that?
Answer. For any number of reasons their customer base is dwindling, rapidly. Seen the size of GR lately?
Why?
To coin a phrase, “Its the economy stupid”. (No not you Tim.) …and the market switch to on line shopping. BIG TIME.
What will happen now.
Whilst I believe AristoCraft may be able to staunch the (metaphorical) blood letting, but not for long. They, like all large businesses, rely on volume sales to stay in business when you are operating on slim margins. If you take away the volume the prices will go up to maintain the same cash flow on reduced volume. Their overall costs will definitely go up. Mainly because of the increased labour required to service small unit sales and get the orders out on time. The per item freight cost will also rise. In short they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. A pity really, as Aristo Craft fading away is not good for my business either.
From what I understand, many of the orders placed at dealers were being drop-shipped by AristoCraft.
If that’s the case, not much will change as far as AristoCraft’s shipping.
What will change, is the money being shared with the dealer 
Ralph
Drop shipping is usually a last resort way of delivering product to maintain cash flow that is drying up from a regular dealer network. AC were probably horrified at the extra cost of handling and shipping in small quantities and said enough.
Quote: Mark, “I live in a major metropolitan area of over 3 million people.”
I also live in a city of 3-4 million people. One would think with such a large consumer base that a hobby strore would thrive. The only Aristo dealer is about one hour away, through city traffic. The red box seller is about two hours away in the country. Dealers set up store where it is convenient for them, low rents, country air, etc. Is it my fault that I do not wish to travel long distances to make purchases or risk the dealer not having the item instock? Of cause I could ring ahead and order the item and then await a pallet load order for the dealer to arrive to get my single order. Dealers order in bulk, not generally single items. One simple item, a pack of carbon brush pickups were ‘onorder’ for over twelve months with a local dealer. I grew tired of waiting and ordered online and had the item shipped from the States in three days total from placing the order.
In fact, with high fuel prices and wear and tear on the car, it is cheaper to have an item, or two shipped from an online ‘store’ Stateside.
Hi Tim:
Years ago prior to my first G Sace purchase I visited a HO scale train store to order a Bachmann locomotive. This Canadian dealer wanted the full Bachmann MRSP retail price !!!
I showed the dealer the Train World ads in Model Railroader. The dealer still insisted on the imaginary full MRSP pricing. So I did not order the item from this local Canadian store and thus began my fifteen years of mail order train purchasing.
Let us see:
This Canadian dealer blames the internet for his lack of train sales. I blame excessive greed on the part of the local train dealer.
That train dealer has not been present at our local all scales train show for years.
Do these train dealers think that we cannot read a magazine ad, view the internet and dial the telephone to place an order which is dropped off at our door in the same manner as any other routine piece of mail?
Ordering a train is not rocket science!
Norman
Norman,
traditionally, wholesale was 60% of retail, except in the clothing trade where 100% markups on wholesale costs was common. If not for the internet, then ‘street’ pricing, thus competition, would not have occurred. In days of old, when consumers knew little of the world outside their immediate domain, retail was the ruling force. The internet has brought the ‘outside’ world right into our homes. This has spurred the online trade to the detriment of brick and mortar stores.
At present, in Australia, we have a war going on as regards retail stores versus internet/online shopping. Retail stores blame the internet for the massive decline in instore sales the past few years. In fact, total online sales in Australia, account for less than 6% of total sales. Store owners/retailers see their profits dwindling and are petitioning the government to 'protect' their precious instore sales by putting conditions on online sales to make online sales more expensive.
Further to this, store owners are also petitioning/lobbying for more 'productivity' from their staff. 'Productivity' in essence, relates to less wages and more stringent work conditions. Shop owners/dealers have not come to terms with competition in their arena. In older days there was no competition. Stores were a monopoly in their area. They set the terms and conditions. The internet brought competition to the marketplace and dealers have not accepted this. they want to carry on as before and set market terms.
The days of dealers demanding full MSRP are past. Today, we are savvy to what is on offer and take our money and shop where the deal is to be made. Time for dealers to face reality. Customer loyalty, like dealer loyalty is dead. For many years, prior the internet, I dealt exclusively with one dealer, the only store in my area. I spent thousands of dollars on my hobby and not once did I get a discount or anything for free. This was how things were done. Try that today and a store would be boarding up his store, wondering where all his 'loyal' customers have gone.
Aristo is simply 'replacing' the brick and mortar' store with an internet business to boost sales. If Charlie Ro has been doing it for ages, as also MTH, Lionel and Accucraft, then why not?Tim,
The difference in this situation is that USAT has not discounted anything like AC is now doing. In fact AC also offered on line purchasing at full MSRP, just like Bachmann also does. The dealers didn’t mind that as the manufacturer was protecting their dealer base and make sure their product got maximum market exposure where potential customers could touch and feel things. Nowadays Ma and Pa dealers are all but extinct and the Net has taken over. As in St Aubins, Ridge Rd, San Val and Train World et al. Note that three of them are now gone. The total Large Scale market place has shrunk to the point where dealers can no longer make a go of it. Not even on the Internet. The only way out for AC was to sell direct to consumers at what is a real street price and pretend the consumer is getting a great deal. I can’t see Bachmann, or anyone else letting AC get away with that for very long so expect all of them to do it eventually. Then there won’t be any dealers at all.
On another tack, The big beneficiary of the expansion of Internet marketing in Australia is the Federal Government owned Postal Service. One of the few businesses the Guvmint did not sell off. The PO is making big bucks from their excellent parcel service which is just as well as their regular letter mail service is all but extinct. For you Americans UPS and Fed Ex are all but non existent in Australia. They are simply too expensive.
Hi Tony:
TrainWorld owns their store. They are not renters so that helps out. TrainWorld carries N, HO, O and largescale so they are not dependant on largescale.
The last time I ordered from TrainWorld the grandson of the original, now deceaat, owner answered the order desk phone. We talked for well over a half our about the retail train industry. Nice guy to deal with.
The demise of LGB really hurt large scale sales. Given that LGB is not a mfg of acale models, one would not think so.
Some day I would like to visit the TrainWorld store but I do not know how dangerous it is to walk the streets of New York City. I would probably get mugged! Best to stick to visiting DisneyWorld.
Last time I was in Miami, a lady had her purse stolen while she was sunbathing on the beach! For myself. I dug a hole in the sand for my hotel key and layed on top of the key. Try stealing that!
There was a murder overnight in the hotel such that the swat team appeared in the parking lot below with sirens blazing in the early morning. I moved to another hotel later that morning!
I have never before seen such an intense concentration of Police cars before in my life as in Miami. It was like I was visiting a war zone. Try to relax in that environment. One visit was enough. Amazing display of personal wealth everywhere, ten yeara ago.
Australia would be a fun relaxing place to visit, as part of the Common Wealth, but I do not have the confidence in the aircraft to fly over all that ocean! A ship ocean voyage would be less stressful!
The lady at the TrainWorld order desk said that TrainWorld would continue to sell Aristo Craft. Time will tell.
I wish that USA TRAINS would offer the same discount web site as Aristo Craft trains.
As to St Aubin, the last time I called them up the order desk clerk explained that they consider an item to be in stock if it is the mfg warehouse. So St Aubin expected the Aristo Craft warehouse to act as the St Aubin warehouse. Why should Aristo Craft incur warehousing expenses and then pass the wholesale discount on to the dealer? The individual stores are supposed to act as the warehouse storage facility, not Aristo Craft.
Norman
Quote: Norman -
“Australia would be a fun relaxing place to visit, as part of the Common Wealth, but I do not have the confidence in the aircraft to fly over all that ocean! A ship ocean voyage would be less stressful!”
Norman,
if you ignore the crocodiles, the world’s deadliest snakes and venomous spiders, Great White Pointer sharks, dengue fever and Ross River infected mosquitoes, sea wasps (only in season), blue ringed octopus, punching kangaroos and head butting wombats and other little nasties, Australia is the safest country on our planet. The safest part of the trip is the air travel to get here.
As a native born Aussie, we have an instinct to avoid the many nasties that confront the unsuspecting tourist. Most of the nasties consume their prey entirely, so no trace is left of the many tourists that come to feed our ravenous wildlife. If tourists, like you stop coming to our shores, then the nasties may start eating us, native born inhabitants. By all means visit us. Winter is generally the safest time as the wildlife eat less in winter months (June, July, August). If you like to live dangerously, then the hotter months, January, February, March are the best time to visit as the bull sharks and White Pointers patrol our beaches and the salties (salt water kroks) eagerly await the drunken tourists who salve their thirst with too much top end bitter (beer).Dont forget -
Drop bears.
Of the world’s ten most venomous insects/invertebrates - ALL ten are native to Ostrilia.
And why a tiny fluffy pink caterpillar about an inch long with an endearing little ‘smile’ carries enough venom to slay a rhino is just one of life’s imponderables.
Stonefish.
Box Jellyfish - a guy who stood on one a while back was in so much agony that he was screaming even while deeply unconscious - figure THAT one out.
Platypus.
etc…
tac, ig & The Gafa Boys [Tim knows what I mean]
Hey Tac, why on Earth are you listing the Platypus amongst that list of undesirable critters. There are plenty of other more dangerous creatures to humans than that unique animal. One of only two species of Monotremes in the World. Sure they have a poisoned barb on their rear legs but that is mainly for defence against their predators. Including us humans.
The Blue ringed octopus is just as dangerous as the Box Jelly fish.
BTW, what is a drop bear?
OK you got me.
I’d be more worried about Australian Museum Curators who like to take the piss out of Poms and Yanks.
Tim Brien said:
Quote: Norman -“Australia would be a fun relaxing place to visit, as part of the Common Wealth, but I do not have the confidence in the aircraft to fly over all that ocean! A ship ocean voyage would be less stressful!”
Norman,
if you ignore the crocodiles, the world’s deadliest snakes and venomous spiders, Great White Pointer sharks, dengue fever and Ross River infected mosquitoes, sea wasps (only in season), blue ringed octopus, punching kangaroos and head butting wombats and other little nasties, Australia is the safest country on our planet. The safest part of the trip is the air travel to get here.As a native born Aussie, we have an instinct to avoid the many nasties that confront the unsuspecting tourist. Most of the nasties consume their prey entirely, so no trace is left of the many tourists that come to feed our ravenous wildlife. If tourists, like you stop coming to our shores, then the nasties may start eating us, native born inhabitants. By all means visit us. Winter is generally the safest time as the wildlife eat less in winter months (June, July, August). If you like to live dangerously, then the hotter months, January, February, March are the best time to visit as the bull sharks and White Pointers patrol our beaches and the salties (salt water kroks) eagerly await the drunken tourists who salve their thirst with too much top end bitter (beer).</blockquote>I nominate for the funniest post on LSC ever!
ExactRail is cutting out their dealers discount and will sell to dealers and consumers for Full MSRP.
Then there’s the Aussie Rules football fans…
CL Beeson said:And then they will be out of busness as well, there stuff is nice but not that nice. N gage cars for a $100.00 each I think not.
ExactRail is cutting out their dealers discount and will sell to dealers and consumers for Full MSRP.