Large Scale Central

Aristo Wide turnouts

Track and Trestles
#1

Hi all, The subject comes up time and again, how good are they? The drawing that follows is of a Aristo Wide turnout (5ft rad)

This sample was ordered straight off the shelf from our wholesaler i.e. no selection as to good or bad or anything. Matter of fact I didn’t even get to look at it prior to buying. G1MRA Standards are here they have just been updated and now list the gauge as 45.0 mm +0/-0.5mm My comment: it would appear that they still don’t understand that any inside dimension is not supposed to have a minus tolerance, unless it is a press fit. NMRA Standards: http://www.nmra.org/standards/consist.html#standards S3.1 through S3.3 NEM Standards: http://www.morop.org/en/normes/nem010_en.pdf Judge for yourself!

#2

So is this why my Annie kept derailing ? :wink:

#3

The worst problems with the WR switch are:

  1. Frog casting above rail head.
  2. Wing rail (Frog) flangeways insufficient depth (especially after fixing #1)
  3. Guard rail flangeway WAY too wide.

Fix those and 90%-100% of your problems will disappear.

Try my methods: http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=86&Itemid=96

Regards, Greg

#4

Greg, thanks for the info on your site about fixing these switches! I’ve been deepening the frog flangeways already, but now I’ll also implement the other corrective measures.

#5

You are welcome Ray.

Be sure to check the TRAINS…TRACK…TRACK STANDARDS page… the width of the guardrail flangeways are spec’d there… very important… keeps from picking the frog.

Also, shoot some armorall on the throw bar, my 3rd one cracked today… plastic on the throwbar is different from ties… it cracks…

Regards, Greg

#6

Two other problems:

  1. To many loose screws.
  2. Microswitch is thicker than the ties, will not let the ties lay flat.
#7

Has a registered letter with all these concerns ever been sent to young Mr.Polk ?

I wonder if there might be some acknowledgement if that course of action were taken.
The other move would be to place the problems on the Aristo Forums, under the thread started by Mr.Polk his-self, where he opens the door for comments; “How are we doing”
The problem there would be; how long would the post stand, as any real problems with their products seem to be deleted at a very fast rate, without any action what-so-ever.

I do find that a very simple fix for the WR switches is just a simple styrene or brass shim on the guard rails. This seems to prevent derailments , although if a flange is too deep, or a wheelset is out of guage; the problems remain.
#8

They have heard it all about the turnouts… but if we bug them enough they will do something.

They are still recovering from their plastic compatible lubricant that eats the truck sideframes, and now they are struggling with smoke units that burn out easily.

One thing at a time…

By the way, the flangeways are for clearance of the flanges in this design, too deep is no problem. Too shallow is.

Regards, Greg

#9

HJ,
I have around 25 Aristo wide-radius switches. Whilst intially a ‘love/hate’ relationship, I have come to have a measure of respect for them (after extensively reworking them for reliable operation). I even had one switch that was so wide in gauge through the frog area that a very expensive brass/stainless steel galloping goose actually fell into the gap and was proceeding to ride up over the outside rail. Quick action prevented the loco falling 24 inches to concrete below.

In so far as Big Haulers derailing through the switch, I have noted of late that the pilot wheels on later releases are starting to closeup, even far less than ‘normal’. ensuring that they stay in gauge certainly works wonders for smoother operation.

#10

Tim,

Like many other things in life, one can make them work properly.

My point was and is: where are the Standards? I have yet to see a LS Standard that permits a 44.00mm to 46.17mm tolerance spread. That is awfully “generous”!

#11

HJ,
do not stop at the switches, the gauge along the entire range of track (curves and straights) varies. Once we ‘forget’ standards then we can get things to work (a little heath robinsonish as the English used to say). The switches were designed to accomodate the apparent lack of largescale standards as regards wheel back to back from all the manufacturers. By ‘us’ adhering to standards then things may be made to work. If Aristo made their track to ‘gauge’ then modellors would comment on the poor running qualities, as in reality, poor adherence to wheel standards from manufacturers, is magnified when the track is actually within standards.

#12

Top thread, guys. I have four USA #6 auto switches on order, and it will be interesting to see if the same problems crop up.

Looks like G scale standards might be a bit like Microsoft’s for software developers. Eyes open, looking!

Liked the Armor-All tip, Greg. For our summers, though, I may to have to pour it over the switch housings with a soup ladle!

#13
Tim Brien said:
HJ, do not stop at the switches, the gauge along the entire range of track (curves and straights) varies. Once we 'forget' standards then we can get things to work (a little heath robinsonish as the English used to say). The switches were designed to accomodate the apparent lack of largescale standards as regards wheel back to back from all the manufacturers. By 'us' adhering to standards then things may be made to work. If Aristo made their track to 'gauge' then modellors would comment on the poor running qualities, as in reality, poor adherence to wheel standards from manufacturers, is magnified when the track is actually within standards.
Tim,

Yes, in the “good old days” of running the mini-RhB on 12mm HOm track every piece of rolling stock went through the same procedure

  • mount all the detail parts, mount Kadee couplers, renumber if necessary, weather, adjust wheelsets.

Every inch of trackage was handlaid, that included 151 turnouts, 6 double-slip switches and about 230m (750ft) of track. All of it Code70 rail on ME or Kappeler ties. Yes, I machined my own gauges to check the track, used the dimensions from NEM.

While I skip handlaying the straight track in LS, I still handlay the turnouts.

If it worked in HOm, then by golly it is going to work in 2m (1:22.5).

#14
Greg Elmassian said:
You are welcome Ray.

Be sure to check the TRAINS…TRACK…TRACK STANDARDS page… the width of the guardrail flangeways are spec’d there… very important… keeps from picking the frog.

Also, shoot some armorall on the throw bar, my 3rd one cracked today… plastic on the throwbar is different from ties… it cracks…

Regards, Greg


Instead of ArmourAll, I uses a product that I get at the marina called “303 Protectant.” It provides superior UV protection (so I am told by several different boat guys) and doesn’t have any silicone. The lack of silicone may or may not be a good thing, I haven’t decided, yet. Silicone is a lubricant, but I find that it also attracts grit. I also use it on all of my plastic buildings. Just spray it on at the beginning of the season and then once more about halfway through. If you leave them out during the winter, another squirt just beore the snow flies can’t be a bad thing.

SteveF

#15

Steve,

Who produces the “303 Protectant”? Is it this stuff?

http://www.303products.com/tech/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=428&CFID=3522224&CFTOKEN=27639288

#16
Steve Featherkile said:
... another squirt just before the snow flies can't be a bad thing. SteveF
Yup, them snow flies can be a killer. Not quite as bad as the ice worms, but avoid both if you can.
#17

HJ, yep that’s the stuff, best UV protectant, use it on my cars.

Steve, I have 303, and as I said above, it is a better UV “resistor” than armorall, although armorall is not bad. There is some stuff by turtle wax, that is good also. I prefer the armorall type stuff on the track, it has another ingredient that makes the plastic more flexible, it is plasticizer, that makes plastic more flexible. The 303 is really more of just sunblock, not the combination of armorall type products.

Also, while 303 being water soluble is good for your car’s interior, you really don’t want it outside as much, because it also washes off more easily than the armorall type stuff.

By the way, have tried about 10 different products extensively, have a couple of expensive toys that I do NOT want to pay for new weatherstripping.

Regards, Greg

#18

HJ, as Greg said, that is the stuff.

Greg, I just barely passed Chem 12, and Organic Chem was the hardest that I ever worked for a “B,” so I will defer to what you said about ArmorAll softening the plastic. Are you sure that is a good thing? 303 is the only product recommended by the manufacturer of my kayak, so I just figured… Now I have to wonder about it being water soluable…

It never gets any easier. :slight_smile:

#19
Steve Featherkile said:
HJ, as Greg said, that is the stuff.

Greg, I just barely passed Chem 12, and Organic Chem was the hardest that I ever worked for a “B,” so I will defer to what you said about ArmorAll softening the plastic. Are you sure that is a good thing? 303 is the only product recommended by the manufacturer of my kayak, so I just figured… Now I have to wonder about it being water soluable…

It never gets any easier. :slight_smile:


Steve,

Use it as an "Air-Kayak’, it will be OK as long as it doesn’t rain. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#20

Checking the 303 web site, it looks like they have two product lines:

  1. Aerospace Protectant
  2. High Tech Fabric Guard

There are four places in the Perth metro area that stock 303 products. One’s a marine trimmer, another makes covers for outboards, and the third deals with supplies for caravans (that’s “trailers” in US English and no, don’t ask why Aussies call them “caravans”). The fourth is a wholesaler for Holley carbs.

As it seems pointless for a manufacturer of outboard motor covers to be using a water-soluble product, I’ve sent the following eMail to 303:

=======

I am tossing up whether to use ArmorAll or 303 Aerospace on the plastic housings of G scale model trains and switches that I plan to run in my garden.

Perth summers are extremely hot, so I’m looking for something that will give excellent protection against UV.

One of the chaps on a forum I belong to reckons 303 is water soluble. If this is so, it doesn’t seem to make much sense using it outdoors, as we do get rain occasionally.

I’d appreciate your advice on the matter.

=======

I’ll post their reply. Reading that eMail, I had to chuckle at the thought of “running switches”!!! Let’s hope they get my meaning!

Pax,
Dave