Hi Guys,
At the fall eclsts I talked with the bachman rep and was told the Aristo Revo would plug right into the b-mank27
I also talked to Mr L Polk who told me the b-man Super Socket was a copy of the Aristo socket and he gave b-man permishion to use it. This confused the hell out of me besause I thought Mr Ames developed the b-man board??
Anyway has anyone installed the Revo into a K27??
Thanks for any info,
Chuck
The Bachmann pcb in the K-27 is wired back to front compared to the AristoCraft one.
Chuck,
We didn’t do a K, but there is a Mallet running on the Revo at the Aristo office.
George
George Adams said:
Chuck, We didn't do a K, but there is a Mallet running on the Revo at the Aristo office.George
Thanks Chuck
Chuck
Indeed the Bachmann and Aristocraft sockets are the same. Aristocraft and Bachmann engineers along with several other manufacturers were all involved in the design of the extended socket that Bachmann now uses in its Spectrum Large Scale locomotives… The key differences between the original Aristocraft socket and the extended socket are that the extended socket has defined the use for the pins on J2 (which were undefined in the original Aristocraft design) and the extended socket has a single low current pin to control the smoke unit while the original design uses two pins and a relay to control the smoke unit.
Aristocraft locomotives over time have used different definitions for motor and light orientation. Because of this the committee eventually let Aristocraft choose the orientation for the extended design which indeed is opposite of many of their locomotives.
The Aristocraft Revolution (along with several other great products) simply plug into the socket which both the Bachmann and Aristocraft locomotives use.
The Revolution is a great product and accommodates the differences in the various locomotives with a simple software switch to choose both the light and motor orientation. The initial Revolution products do not yet use J2 so additional wiring is still needed to control the functions that are controlled through pins on J2 (such as cab light). Hopefully future releases will have this capability as it is only requires a simple additional solder trace to provide this support.
Hope that helps.
Stan Ames
This thread at least explains what the Bachmann socket is. I am pleased to say I understand it all.
I may have missed the fine detail in other posts I have read in the past but there was far too much obfuscation due to criticisms of the why and wherefore and personalities that I - and I am sure many others - lost interest.
Thanks to the posters who replied to the original question.
Hi Stan,
First thank you much for the reply. Another question, will the revo support or be able to use the b-man chuff sensors if I decide to add sound [most likely 2k2] ??
Thanks again
Chuck
Hi Alan,
Right on. K Strong also posted on MLS that the revo board will plug into the K27.
I know very little about battery/RC but intend to learn. I have 4 b-man locos and plans to build 5 or 6 more and am looking for one system that will run all of them.
Chuck
But, we are talking V1, K-27 socket.
IF you think you can just “plug and pray”, not quite.
If you can ONLY plug in components, then the circuit modifications to allow the chuff to be of a proper polarity might be more than you want to bite off.
However, the RCS P-n-P and the Beltrol DO plug in, and have the built-in ability to correct the chuff.
Nobody in Philly will admit to who is responsible for the inverted chuff and the current limiting transistors for the lights, but it had to have been a dyslexic moron.
Personally, at the demand of my customers, every one that has come through the shop has been gutted of the Ames Super Socket, and most of the other electronics have been eliminated.
The only thing in use is the flicker driver, as what we believe to be the same dyslexic moron designed that as an integral part of the lighting board, also.
I end up doing a lot of work to make these function to the satisfaction of the consumer.
Eliminate most of the side play at the pilot beam.
Bypass lamp electronics and install proper lighting.
Clear the tender shell out, and glue a piece of black styrene over the opening, to allow better bass response and to keep water out, plus allowing real coal to be added.
Cab doors fixed.
Wiring between engine and tender simplified.
Proper mechanical/electric (reed and magnets) on #4 axle.
Shim the older style counterweights (tighter than the “new” weights).
Remove the fan.
Orient the eccentrics as per prototype.
Add radio, battery, and sound.
Working on gearing that is not as tall, and when that is in place, mine will come off the basement floor.
But if you only want to plug it in, the RCS unit will handle all current variations from Philly.
DO NOT throw the “nmra/LS” switch once you connect batteries if you use any polarity sensitive electronics.
Chuck Cole said:
Hi Stan,First thank you much for the reply. Another question, will the revo support or be able to use the b-man chuff sensors if I decide to add sound [most likely 2k2] ??
Thanks again
Chuck
The initial release of the Revolution is a motor control and with function output device. It plugs directly in the socket but does not help you much with a sound install. A sound unit would be external and wired to both the Revolution and the locomotive. The Revolution outputs are connected to the trigger inputs of your sound card and the speaker outputs of your sound card connected directly to the speaker.
Since the Revolution does not pass through the locomotive chuff trigger pins you would need to hook up the chuff sound input directly to the locomotive. With the K27 and Phoenix card you mention you will have to invert the chuff signal with is a very simple procedure that is described in detail on the Bachmann site. I would use the QSI install as the best approach for your intended use.
As the Revolution evolves I would expect them to provide a simpler install or a more integrated approach. We will have to wait and see what Lewis has in mind.
Hope that helps.
Stan Ames
To expand further, I had a bit of strangeness happen when I went to permanently install the Revolution into the K-27 this past week. The blippin’ headlights wouldn’t work. No forward, reverse, nothing! No marker (class) lights, cab, or firebox lights, either. Everything worked fine with the “dummy” plug installed, so I know the internal electronics were good. The motor control and all that jazz worked perfectly, but no lights for love or money. When I went to control the lights through the Aristo adapter board, they worked (almost) fine, but I think that is an issue with the adapter board–though it could be the decoder issue, which might have caused the B-mann board to not work properly. Without a second decoder to test (I wasn’t in the mood to open the tender of my Mogul to pull that one out), I just kept plodding along with what I had in front of me.
In the end, I gutted the socket from the tender and wired everything direct to the Aristo board via their small adapter board that comes with the Revolution. This was actually pretty clean (and dirt simple) because all the necessary wires are already there in the tender. All you need to do is figure out which goes to what, which you can do from looking at the stock socket board. (hint: either pull the wires from one board and solder to the next as you go, or flag each wire as you unsolder it.) I think my little adapter board is “faulty” in that the front headlight is on all the time, not directional (and doesn’t respond to the “on/off” control from the transmitter), but I found a better solution to that problem anyway.
The cab and firebox lights are wired to the front headlight control pad, since (on my board) they’re on all the time. I figure since it’s a steam engine, there needs to be a fire in the firebox if you want it to move, so why not have that on all the time? The cab light as well, since it’s something that would also be on all the time so the engineers can see the gauges in tunnels, etc. What I don’t know is how you’d control them to be on all the time if the board was working “properly.” I’d think you can just connect them across the battery inputs, but I’m not certain. That, or across the common (+V) output and ground. If my board is shorted the way I think it is, that’s essentially what I have.
The headlight and marker (class) lights I control via the accessory controls on the Revolution. Just solder the control wires (in my case, I’m using keys 5 and 6–red and brown wires respectively) to the appropriate wires going up to the locomotive. This way I can control the front headlight independent of the direction of the locomotive, and it’s also on when there’s no voltage going to the motor. (I believe the Revolution turns all headlights off when stopped.) The marker (class) lights can be turned on independently as well, as befitting the train orders. The rear headlight is wired to the board as normal, and comes on only when the loco is moving backwards.
Note: I did nothing to any of the electronics on the locomotive itself. All that is stock and untouched. I just took the socket board out of the equation.
I’m at a loss to explain why the Aristo decoder wouldn’t control the lights via the stock B’mann board. I don’t know if it’s an Aristo or Bachmann issue. At this point, I’m unlikely to find out unless another stock K-27 comes through the workshop while I have a spare Revolution decoder sitting unused. Of course, at this point–for my purposes–the reasoning is moot since I’ve worked around it. Still, I’d like to know so the next time someone asks me if they’re compatible, I don’t have to use an asterisk in my response. 
Later,
K
Kevin.
I can guarantee you it is not a Bachmann fault.
The RCS/BELTROL PnP ESC works the Bachmann lights just fine.
I have just delivered another Plug’n’Play installation to a happy customer.
There is probably a simple solution to the problem.
I have made no effort to control the classification lights but no doubt that could be done easily enough.