I have just run into a strange problem. I bought a used Aristo Hooker Tank Car, factory stock. it came with Aristo knuckles mounted on the trucks. I need hook/loop couplers on my switching problem cars. I had to search quite a while to find a pair of Aristo hook/loop couplers to mount on the Aristo trucks on the car. I immediately noticed that when I run through a switch the uncoupling tab hanging down on the hook/loop couplers mounted on the Aristo trucks catches on the diverging switch rail when the car tries to go through the switch. Both ends. One coupler hook is slightly lower than the one on the opposite end, but both catch and although its not enough to derail, it makes the car uncouple. Quickest fix is to change to Bachmann trucks and couplers. They fit fine on the Aristo car. But it just bothers me that the factory stock Aristo setup catches on the switch. I can mill the mount on the Aristo trucks to raise the height of the whole coupler, which needs to happen anyway since the Aristo coupler/truck combination has the loop mounted lower than the LGB and Bachmann loops on my other cars. That makes coupling the cars while operating require a harder impact {aka, faster speed} to push the hook down under the loop to make the coupling. Larger diameter wheels would also raise the coupler height, but will not work because the flanges rub on the car body. I know there are no standards in the large scale hobby, but I am surprised that Aristo couplers don’t even clear their own switches, making it impossible to run without reworking the truck/coupler mount. I have noted that Aristo sells all their cars with Aristo knuckle couplers factory installed, but I can’t be the only person trying to run Aristo hook/loop couplers on some of their cars. I hesitate to modify the Aristo trucks in case I want to remount the knuckles. I have not seen this problem addressed before, in any of the forums. To answer the immediate question you all are thinking: Why are you running Hook/Loops? Well, R1 switches connected to R1 curves, creating the dreaded S curve, are to sharp to run knuckles because of coupler swing. Holds true for LGB knuckles and Bachmann knuckles also. I know, because I tried to run my switching problem with knuckles. I am posting about this, mostly just because It’s frustrating. I want to use the Hooker tank car just because. Seems like everything in this hobby is ready to MAKE run. So, anybody else run into this problem? How did you fix it? Comments?
Happens all the time…One of the reasons I do not use Aristo couplers. You can simply file away some of the material on the un-coupling “arm” on the hook so it clears your obstructions.
I note the couplers will “hit” LGB station platform track sections, LGB track magnets, switches, and even sometimes “rub” on an Aristo railroad crossing/re-railer.
I should add I really like a lot of Aristo rolling stock, 2-bay covered hoppers, gondolas, and box cars but I have a strong dis-like for their trucks/couplers. I replace most of my Aristo trucks with USA or LGB truck/couplers.
Funnily enough, I haven’t run into that problem (yet)… Bachmann knuckles uncoupling at every crossing and turnout OTOH. (Grrrrrr!) - even filing the bottom off the drop pins didn’t cure it 100%… going to H&L did.
Unless you regularly use automatic uncouplers, the easiest solution is probably to cut off part of the tails.
I have never used the Aristo - or anyone elses hook and loop couplers - so I don’t have an answer. All my Aristo stock is fitted with with Aristo knuckle couplers as supplied and I retro fitted those type of couplers to my Bachmann 1:22.5 stock. In over six years never have had any issues with them. I replaced the Bachmann couplers for a similar reason that Mik makes.
John C. Allen said:
Why are you running Hook/Loops? Well, R1 switches connected to R1 curves, creating the dreaded S curve, are to sharp to run knuckles because of coupler swing.
John, I have no problems with Bachmann knuckles in R1 switches or S curves. I have plenty, of both. I know this doesn’t help with your hook/loop problem, but it can and is done with knuckle couplers. Ralph
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/003M.JPG)
Here’s a video. I turned the train around in the “Y” and then backed on to the inside main. This is a pretty steep down grade. Had any of the couplers failed, the cars would have “took off”. I was by myself, so I could only record the last part backing through the switches. Going through the “Y”, I was too busy throwing switches. The main yard lead is to the right. I can backout through three switches, each changing direction, with no uncouplings. Can do the same forward. And do it all the time with the longer Bachmann coaches. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_len_ZUA_4&list=UU4DGjxqEPvQQRDhvpB9w5rw&index=16&feature=plcp[/youtube]
First of all, Thanks to everyone for the replies!
I had some additional thoughts on this. Perhaps the coupler height difference is caused by the scale difference (1:29 vs 1:22.5). The larger scale would have the coupler farther from the rail because the “inches” are bigger. That means Aristo actually had a reason for their coupler height. Still doesn’t excuse the coupler arm being so low it hits things it shouldn’t hit!
Mark - Replacing the trucks is the solution I’m using. I used Bachmann which makes my HookLoop height match everything else I have.
Mik - I have Bachmann knuckles on everything except the switching problem cars. This Hooker tank car is the first Aristo car I ever purchased. I fought the Bachmann coming uncoupled problem for a couple of years, looking at all the solutions involving springs, etc. I finally made some brass replacements for the drop pin. The extra weight did the trick and eliminated the false uncoupling. Filing them out of brass was tedious, so I finally made some oversize masters and cast a bunch of pins in pewter. It’s plenty hard and strong enough to work to lock the knuckle closed. You may have noticed that Bachmann changed the drop pin in their recent knuckles to zamac as their analysis of the problem/solution was apparently the same as mine. Heavier pin doesn’t vibrate loose. I still buy the older all plastic couplers when I can find them because the price is so cheap. By the way, who/what are H&L? Not familiar with them.
Allen - Lots of guys in the local club run Aristo knuckles. Like you, they swear by them.
Ralph - Looking at your track in the video, I do not see an actual S curve, even in your crossover. You have at least a short section of straight coming off every curve. Even as short a section of straight as 3 inches between the two curve sections creating the S will generally eliminated the coupler swing problem. Mine is created by connecting the Ri curve to the curved side of the switch so the ensuing siding will be parallel with the main. To keep the track on the switching problem table, which is elevated, I don’t have room for the 3 inch straight section between the switch and the curve.
I’ve written an article on building my switching problem which I will eventually submit to have posted in the “articles” section of LSC, once I figure out how to make a Mac post pictures. I put a bunch of photos in my Train Shed, and now can’t take any out to put different ones in. Anyway, when I get it posted Y’all can have a good laugh at my idiocy.
John, I have several “S” curves on the layout. If you look at the preview pane of the video, there are two back to back left hand R1 switches in oposing direction. Here with the passing siding at the top I have what I believe to be the same situation you describe on your layout.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/GR17M.jpg)
Here at the top of the photo the coaches are covering the switch on the other end of the passing siding. At the bottom of the photo you can see part of a left hand switch. What you don’t see is the other left hand switch connected to it that brings you out to the main the engine is on. From the main to the outside siding, the train is traversing left, right, left, right with no straight sections of track.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/GR2M.jpg)
I also have several “S” curves on the main. They were R1, but have been opened up a bit with a railbender.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/GR31M.jpg)
Here is another, just behind the coaches.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cabby/_forumfiles/GR4M.jpg)
At one time I ran 1/29th rolling stock with Aristo couplers. But they were a bit small behind the Bachmann engines. So I got rid of them. Ralph