Large Scale Central

Answering those "Operational" questions

Operations
#1

Our “Spring Ops” session created a number of “todo’s”. You know those questions like “how come you do it this way?” or the “whyjas” - “Why’d ya do it that way?” or the “couldjas” - “Could ja make it easier for us to do?”

One of mine was to finally get all the rolling stock converted to Kadee couplers. I ordered 10-830’s and 10- 835’s. I decided not to redo the “talgo” mounted couplers that were changed to Kadees, but leave them and move on to the unconverted (here that Fred?) Bachmann, USA and Aristo cars that still had the old couplers.
Completed all the coal cars (17) yesterday and started on a flat car, today.

And the work continues.

#2

Yea, I’m in the middle of convertin all mine to Kadee’s…got tired of listenin to Fred’s pontificating every time I went up there…guess now he find somethin else to “pontifiate” about…hehe

#3

I have a question about kadees. When you switch to them are you also switching to body mounted or do you stay truck mounted? Is their a minimum diameter I should be using on body mounts? I’m modeling modern diesel/rolling stock.

Mark

#4

Mark,

My original conversions starting 1997 were to “Talgo Mounted” on the trucks. This works, but does not resolve the backing through curve problems of the pressures of the load pushing against the sides of the trucks, causing derailments.

Unless purposeful, I have been converting non-Kadee equipment to body mounts with 835’s, small draft box and 830’s with large draft boxes. The difference depends on the specific installations. There are ears sticking out on the 830’s and they rub against the trucks on less than 8 foot diameter curves. You can trim them off and get clearance down to about 6.5 diameter curves.

I guess, once I get everything converted to Kadees, then I’ll go back converting Talgo mounts to body mounts. It is a good hot or cold weather project, but takes time. So far, I guess this is my 10th season of conversion. Father Fred just shakes his head and says I’m a slow learner.

Hope this answers some of your questions. Your results may vary. I did get a #50 drill bit and a #2-56 tap, yesterday. Tried them this AM. That will make this project go a lot easier.

#5

I think if you’re just starting to convert, then go with the body-mounted couplers right out of the gate. So long as your curves are 4’ radius or larger, you shouldn’t have any problems (perhaps on S curves with longer equipment). The primary advantage of going with body-mounted couplers is that it takes all the force off the trucks, and they can concentrate solely on staying on the rails rather than being pulled one way or the other by the force of the train.

BTW, Ridge Road Station typically has the best prices on Kadee couplers. I think they have the standard coupler for around $5/pair.

Later,

K

#6

Kevin,

I certainly agree, but that almost means you have to totally trust 'the old farts" that they are not feeding you a line of cr*p, so they can personally sell you parts. I would think that many people will try a few Kadees on “talgo mounts” to see if it is worth while. Its only human nature.

You also have to get the track in a large enough radius to carry your equipment, all part of the learning curve. This may be the true form of evolution. We will know it has happened if the companies quit selling something other than Kadees and the smallest curve available is 5 foot radius. Until then, the wheel must constantly be reinvented.

It is a hobby, right?

#7

The old adage about not being able to back talgo-mounts up is an old wive’s tale.

Every operating session we back the lower setout, 28-34 loads, into the shed, through LGB 1600 switches, no problem.

The real problem is tighter curves with body mounts on one and talgos on the other.
Body mounts lean to the outside of the curve, following the centerline of the car, while talgos follow the center of the tracks, leading with the truck.

I much prefer talgos.

#8

Dave,

I’m well aware you use Bachmann, Lionel and Delton couplers, but I guess I was unaware you didn’t body mount them. I don’t know where I got the idea you did. I find that quite impressive to be able to push that many cars without a derailment. I have had to create a couple of “run arounds” on one hill into “Fiddle” to get past just the same problem. I’ve not had trouble pulling a long string of “talgo mounts”, but poor luck pushing them. But this is on a curve and an incline. What’s your secret?

#9

“What’s your secret?”

In mixed company, I’d say “skill and daring”, but those that know me understand I threatened to blow them apart if they dare derailed.

I suppose if I was backing them up a 4%, yeah, we couldn’t do it.

I know the guys back up 10 or more on the 4%, the setout comes in on level track.

Like Ferd, metal wheels on flats.
Some really light flats (or ones that get “unloaded” and may come in that way) get lead weights under the floor.

I think the only body mounted rolling stock is the Bachmann 20-footers, of which I use several of the short-side gons, but the length keeps the overhang down.

TOC

#10

My solution to the 2% grade on the curve was a passing siding at the bottom of the hill and another one toward the top. This allowed me to get through the curve with an operational move of running around the train and dragging it up the hill, setting the brakes and then getting back on the lower end to push the equipment into “Fiddle”. Makes for a nice little piece of work.

#11

I body mount all my stock 'cause they just plain look better than talgo mounts hanging down. And I also like the “chain reaction” when you start up. Kinda like the real thing.
“Old wives tale” notwithstanding, I had lotsa problems with talgos; none with body’s.
To each his own…
I started out using talgo mounts, but since changed. Now when I leave the store, I add a set of KD body mounts, and a set of Gary Raymond wheels to the check-out cart.
Just the policy of my Clearwater Canyon RR.
j

#12
John Bouck said:
I body mount all my stock 'cause they just plain look better than talgo mounts hanging down. And I also like the "chain reaction" when you start up. Kinda like the real thing. "Old wives tale" notwithstanding, I had lotsa problems with talgos; none with body's. To each his own........ I started out using talgo mounts, but since changed. Now when I leave the store, I add a set of KD body mounts, and a set of Gary Raymond wheels to the check-out cart. Just the policy of my Clearwater Canyon RR. j
John is my mentor, my guru. What he said. Besides, they look better, and I have not been able to back up talgos successfully, despite what Dave says. I couldn't even do it on his track, that one time. :)

madwolf

#13

helps if you throw the switch first…

#14
Curmudgeon said:
helps if you throw the switch first......
Yeah, that probably helps. Just rest assured, I've seen the big guys forget to do it every once in awhile, also.
#15

The only real problem we’ve ever had with couplkers WAS body mounts.

Guy came by with a string of Bachmann 3-bays with the small Kadees.

Any up and down in the track, they lifted over each other.

Oh, and then there was Kevin…lifting cars to uncouple them, but that’s another story.

#16

I’d really like to go body mount for the looks and to transmit forces through the bodies, not through the trucks, and the resulting forces on the wheels.

But, every time I think I might try it, I just look at the body overhang on my 10’ diameter curves and wonder how the heck it can work.

I noticed that if you have 2 identical cars coupled together, their overhangs match (doh!), but when they go from straight to curved track I can’t see how it will work.

Also, I have USAT streamliners, USAT containers, and Aristo heavyweights. With my curves, just cannot see how it will work either.

I sure would like to back long trains (like 20 cars or more). Maybe I should try body mounting some of my USAT freight cars, which seem to have the right pad and holes for Kadee body mounts.

I am also surprised by how many people cut the metal uncoupling pin off Kadees. I have found that keeping coupler heights spot on and the pins adjusted to spec (and mounting the uncoupling ramps below the rails) gives me no problems.

Any opinions, experience?

Regards, Greg

#17

Greg,

I started this thread talking about the list of “todo’s” I have between “Ops Sessions”. Changing to Kadees is on e of the tasks. I’m just body mounting the equipment I’m changing now. I figurre to get everything converted to Kadees before I go back and worry about whether the old talgo mounts should be changed. I don’t use a magnet to uncouple, I’m one of the screwdriver guys. It works well for me. I’m also one of those that cut the tail off the bottom of the coupler, I just don’t like the way they look. I put Ozark airhose fittings on. I’m certainly not complete in my project, nor do I demand that other people follow my lead or not allow them to run their equipment on my railroad. In fact I have a number of freight cars that allow for coupler conversion to allow other people to run their equipment with mine using a converter car.

All is part of the prep for the next “Ops Session” and keeps me interested with improving my own railroad. Plus its a good way to hide in the basement during the heat of summer. :wink:

#18

OPS session!!! did I hear ops session??? when, where??

hehehehe

#19

First and third Fridays.
1400-2100 local, at the Colorado Consolidated railway.

Whatreya, new?

Best leave early from Nashville…

#20
Curmudgeon said:
First and third Fridays. 1400-2100 local, at the Colorado Consolidated railway.

Whatreya, new?

Best leave early from Nashville…


Of Course I’m new… I’m the new old guy…

However, Ric’s is much closer, saves on gas money, and the food is always great…

hehehe, food being the ulterior motive here…