Large Scale Central

Another Scale thread

General Discussion
#1

I just got my February 2013 Garden Railways magazine yesterday.

Inside is a large ad for 16mm garden railroading (Page 35). This organization is primarily in Europe and Australia areas but looking to expand there in the USA and Canada. Also Page 10 (Clubs)

4,100 members and growing???

What I like about it is how they explain the scales.

“We model narrow gauge railroads in 16mm to the foot on 32mm track, at 15mm to the foot on 45mm track and at 7/8” to the foot on 32mm or 45mm track - live steam and battery powered."

It says it all, no confusion.

http://www.16mm-us.org

Now if we could come up with something that simple for our scales our hobby might get more interest. IMHO.

#2

“15mm to the foot on 45mm track” is just a different way of saying 1:20.3 … 3Foot gauge x 15mmm = 45mm track. I’ve always preferred to use this measure when modeling 1:20.3 - or Fn3 if you prefer :slight_smile:

#3
Jon Radder said:
"15mm to the foot on 45mm track" is just a different way of saying 1:20.3 ... 3Foot gauge x 15mmm = 45mm track. I've always preferred to use this measure when modeling 1:20.3 - or Fn3 if you prefer :)
I agree, sure rubs me the wrong way when these people mix Metric and Imperial to express a scale. It's about as silly as it gets. (Nah, I won't comment on where that lunacy originated!)

Naturally this is, as always, strictly my opinion based on the fact that I learned about scale approx 60 years ago i.e. my first electric train was 1:100.

#4

Mixing metric and English Imperial caused the loss of the Mars Climate Orbiter…I must confess I care little about the brew-ha-ha over the discussions of scale but “15mm to the foot” makes my brain hurt.

#5

I humbly refer you to my short essay on the naming of scales in the articles section…

http://www.largescalecentral.com/articles/view.php?id=144

#6
John Le Forestier said:
I humbly refer you to my short essay on the naming of scales in the articles section...

http://www.largescalecentral.com/articles/view.php?id=144


Nicely written John:

My point was completely missed by some. Really do not want to pick nits or personal preferences.

Look at it this way.

I am entering an elevator wearing a shirt that says “I grow Trains in my Garden” now the person next to you wants to know what size trains you have.

Now you have no more that 15 second to explain to him and not see glassy eyes after 5 second into your speech.

You are talking to a complete stranger that just might be interested in knowing more or maybe just maybe wants to get into garden railroading.

I have been in this situation myself and saw the glassy eyes.

#7

Dennis, if only 15 seconds to explain, then I’d say ““G-scale””… G stands for ““in the Garden””… :slight_smile:

#8
Dennis Cherry said:
John Le Forestier said:
I humbly refer you to my short essay on the naming of scales in the articles section...

http://www.largescalecentral.com/articles/view.php?id=144


Nicely written John:

My point was completely missed by some. Really do not want to pick nits or personal preferences.

Look at it this way.

I am entering an elevator wearing a shirt that says “I grow Trains in my Garden” now the person next to you wants to know what size trains you have.

Now you have no more that 15 second to explain to him and not see glassy eyes after 5 second into your speech.

You are talking to a complete stranger that just might be interested in knowing more or maybe just maybe wants to get into garden railroading.

I have been in this situation myself and saw the glassy eyes.


It only takes four seconds i.e. you bend your elbows, hold your left hand slightly more than shoulder width from your right hand and tell him/her “this is the lengths of a passenger coach”. Simple, no confusion and all in four seconds. The speech follows when they want to know more.

PS Since that distance will be about 600mm (24") they will be impressed … the WOW factor is working. How high and how wide? Doesn’t matter, we all have a mental image of a passenger car and since everything they are familiar with from their childhood is smaller (unless they had ride-on trains) they just up the cube measurements accordingly. At least that’s what I believe happens in most people’s mind.

#9

I tell 'em “The cars are about as long as a shoe box, and yes I run them outdoors”. They usually hit the button for the next floor and get out. :slight_smile:

#10
Dennis Cherry said:
IInside is a large ad for 16mm garden railroading (Page 35). This organization is primarily in Europe and Australia areas but looking to expand there in the USA and Canada. Also Page 10 (Clubs)
Actually, Dennis, it began in the UK, where the more common two-foot track still dominates the narrow gauge - mainly in Wales. Gauge 1 was pretty much the area of interest of those with BIG backyards and matching wallets, but a few people looked around and saw the possibilities of running tiny steam trains on windy little tracks [just like the real thing] by using the common cheap tinplate 0 gauge track to replicate the two-foot gauge. As 0 gauge track in UK was 32mm between the lines, and it was pretending to be 2ft, the rather odd ratio of metric to imperial measurement was a no-brainer. After all, the UK already had the 00 train scale of 4mm to the foot and the 0 scale of 7mm to the foot. One more confusing scale really wasn't going to matter in the overall scheme of things for those who chose it.

BTW, 16mm to the foot = 1/19th scale. What would YOU call it?

Read the history.

tac

#11

History is always good, starting in 1891 when Märklin introduced some standards. :wink:

#12
Mark V said:
...but "15mm to the foot" makes my brain hurt.
I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to get around. Take the "mm" out of the equation. You've got a ruler with a bunch of tic marks on it. We'll call each little tic mark a "quirble." Every 15 quirbles on the ruler equals a scale foot on the prototype.

Take another ruler that has a bunch of similar tic marks on it. We’ll call those “fooks.” Every 4 fooks equals 1 scale foot on the prototype.

Now, by some strange coincidence, those tic marks on those various rulers happen to match tic marks on other commonly-used rulers. A quirble happens to equal 1 mm, and a fook equals 1/8".

A scale conversion is nothing more than a mathematical relationship. You’re converting between units anyway, so the names associated with them don’t matter.

Later,

K

#13
Kevin Strong said:
Mark V said:
...but "15mm to the foot" makes my brain hurt.
I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to get around. Take the "mm" out of the equation. You've got a ruler with a bunch of tic marks on it. We'll call each little tic mark a "quirble." Every 15 quirbles on the ruler equals a scale foot on the prototype.

Take another ruler that has a bunch of similar tic marks on it. We’ll call those “fooks.” Every 4 fooks equals 1 scale foot on the prototype.

Now, by some strange coincidence, those tic marks on those various rulers happen to match tic marks on other commonly-used rulers. A quirble happens to equal 1 mm, and a fook equals 1/8".

A scale conversion is nothing more than a mathematical relationship. You’re converting between units anyway, so the names associated with them don’t matter.

Later,

K


Yes Kevin,

But it all boils down to … “we’ll be damned to use a stupid decimal system if we can use something more convoluted.”

#14
Kevin Strong said:
Mark V said:
...but "15mm to the foot" makes my brain hurt.
I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to get around. Take the "mm" out of the equation. You've got a ruler with a bunch of tic marks on it. We'll call each little tic mark a "quirble." Every 15 quirbles on the ruler equals a scale foot on the prototype.

Take another ruler that has a bunch of similar tic marks on it. We’ll call those “fooks.” Every 4 fooks equals 1 scale foot on the prototype.

Now, by some strange coincidence, those tic marks on those various rulers happen to match tic marks on other commonly-used rulers. A quirble happens to equal 1 mm, and a fook equals 1/8".

A scale conversion is nothing more than a mathematical relationship. You’re converting between units anyway, so the names associated with them don’t matter.

Later,

K


Well that was just a tad rude and all too condescending…I did not say it was a difficult concept; I’m an engineer and deal with this every day. I agreed with a previous poster who stated they did not like “mixed” units of measurement and I agreed. I simply do not like ratios that equate two distinct systems of measurement; I usually refer to those as conversion factors.

#15

I never have any trouble telling people about my trains: “They’re 1/24th scale, which is half-inch to the foot.” Then they might ask something about how big the trains are, and my response is “about yea high”. :slight_smile:

The complicated part is when someone asks me about “G scale” and I have to explain that there are many different scales, running on the same gauge of track, which tend to be lumped under the generic heading of “G scale”.

#16

In 5 seconds I can easily say “they are electric trains that are about (picture putting hands out to exemplify stated measurements) 4” wide, 6" high and 12" to 18" long. If there eyes haven’t glazed over I may go into more description. If they are a total stranger I wouldn’t waste my time with further explanation as it is none of their business and I am a bit paranoid that a stranger will see my railway and come back with friends when I am not home!
If they were an enthusiast, they may start the question with “and what scale do you model?” in which case we may never leave the elevator.

Regard mixing measurements, get used to it, it has been around a long time and will forever be with us in all the scales from “N” to whatever.

I had an engineer mate who was mildly interested in trains but was a pain in the butt because he couldn’t accept that we model in 3.5mm to 1’ (that was before my garden rail days), his loss was the hobbies gain.

Wayne

#17

Hans said: “It only takes four seconds i.e. you bend your elbows, hold your left hand slightly more than shoulder width from your right hand and tell him/her “this is the lengths of a passenger coach”. Simple, no confusion and all in four seconds. The speech follows when they want to know more.”

[b]I don’t know Hans. If the guy is a fisherman and used to fish tales he’ll probably just roll his eyes and walk away! :wink: :smiley:

I would be more inclined to take a tip from THE excellent source and just say “suitable for G gauge”[/b]

#18

Not a problem. Nobody ever asks :lol:
Ralph

#19

No one would ever ask me that question because I would never be caught dead wearing a shirt that says "“I grow Trains in my Garden” Lol Shut up Rooster.

#20

When someone ask me about the scale of my trains, my response is the buildings are a half inch to the foot. The trains are about 6" high and a foot and half long. That seem to satisfy their curiously. If they want to know more, I tell them to come by the house especially at Halloween when there is an open house for the trick-or-treaters.
Ron