Large Scale Central

An open Letter to Dave

General Discussion
#1

Dave

I wonder if it would be possible to lower the noise level just a tad. We are all model railroaders after all and while we may have different opinions on various topics, this should not be a justification to resort to personnel attacks on each other. There is a lot we can learn from the experiences of each other and there are most assuredly many improvements manufacturers can make to improve their products.

We should be able to discuss a topic, find the area of agreements, and agree to disagree on areas of disagreements.

Large scale modeling is a lot of fun and we each enjoy it in different ways. Each modeler and each railroad is different and we should be able to enjoy these differences.

Likewise no model is perfect. Most every model I have come in contact with has strengths and weaknesses and improvements can be made to them all.

Why not work as a team, listen to the views of others, and relax a little.

Stan Ames
www.tttrains.com/largescale

#2

How condescending of you Stanley.

You simply don’t get it do you?

#3

Stan,
Your arrogance in the face of facts is astounding. We’re just supposed to trust you? HAH! You don’t have the expertise or credibility, despite what you think, to get that level of trust.

Your type must be confronted and opposed whenever and where ever its found spewing this type of crap on ANY topic.

Andre`

#4

Well, see what kind of a mess you’ve got us into, Ollie?

#5

I wish you and b-man would fess up that you all SCREWED UP. The proof is in the mallet.
Stan, answer this “why did they (B-man) use the 1 to29 in the mallet”. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WAS RECOMMENDED WHEN THE K WAS IN DEVELOPMENT.
The K is a very beautiful loco and a masterpiece to see BUT ALL the BULLS**T electronics could of
been done without. As others have suggested, the use of a terminal blocks would have been a lot
more user friendly for those of us that use other power source other than DCC.
I have waited to comment on this subject till I had a least 1 in hand, and have 3 now.
All 3 are tore apart and I’m trying to make a 2 to 1 gear box to go on the motor with a shaft out
of the gearbox for the worm gear.
I run battery and I want ALL the efficiency I can get. With the correct 1 to 29 gear ratio, the
motor is operating a lot more efficiently. ie NOT drawing as much POWER. Batteries last longer
Rodney

#6

Problem is, it’s no longer just Dave. He might have been the first, but now there are an awful lot of us who have seen, and understood all too well, despite all efforts to the contrary.

MENE MENE TEKEL UPARSIN. (You have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.)

One can only hope that Bachmann and Kader are watching carefully …

Matthew (OV)

#7

I will weigh in here, but what I say may not be popular.

I think that the comments that are personal in nature could be toned down. I can understand being upset, as I was recently banned from the Aristo forum for being a bad boy, and got a number of emails I would classify as personal attacks from Aristo people. It does not feel good. It hurts your feelings. I had a number of people say nasty things when I went because they knew I could not respond.

Even so, I think a “reduction in volume” could be done and still get the points across. Facts speak for themselves, and namecalling is not really necessary.

BUT…

There is a lot of poor information circulating, and I’m being diplomatic saying “poor”. Some of it COULD almost be true, but there has been some convoluted theories, where I am just shaking my head. Having a scientific degree, some stuff is just not real.

I think there is a lot of “operational intelligence” in Andre’s post, you have to earn credibility and respect. I’m a DCC guy, so I agree that there is a lot you can do with electronics, but it should not be used to attempt to correct mistakes.

I do question the reason for creating the thread. A private email would probably have been more effective. Here, you may be embarrassed by the responses you get, but making a public post invites public responses. Perhaps the majority of the community is speaking. We shall see.

Regards, Greg

#8

Greg,
I applaud Stan for posting this thread. His personal character and not his ‘business interests’ are being questioned. Stan has the right of reply in a public forum as his character is being attacked in a public arena. Stan has the disadvantage that, unlike the rest of us, he is not permitted to make a personal opinion, as anything he says will be construed as following the company line and will be carefully and ruthlessly disected and responded to. He is in a no-win situation every time he responds to a criticism. He did concede however, that a 18:1 gearbox ratio may be better suited to the application (far short of the 30:1 that many are asking for).

    Stan has years of experience in the model railroad field,  with an emphasis on electronic control.  It is not unreasonable to accept that he sees electronic control as the future,  by smoothing out raw DC current to better suit the real time situation the locomotive is in,  at any particular time.  Car computers have been doing this for a long time.  Initially,  car mechanics criticised the inability to control fuel/air mixtures and ignition crankshaft angles,  but in reality,  a computer is better able to adjust to each real time scenario better than simply changing a gearbox ratio.

     However,  many of us are not prepared to accept the 'way of the future' and simply want a locomotive with an acceptable level of performance,  without the complexity that is being shoved down our throats.  As Henry Ford is reported to have stated - "You can have any colour you wany,  as long as it is black."  There was a reason for this in that colours other than black,  had longer cure/drying times and thus were not suited to the production line assembly process.  In the B'mann's situation it is basically,  if you want the locomotive,  you take what you are given.  If you do not like it then do not buy it.  Given their manufacturing experience,  I find it hard to believe that B'mann are still having gearbox issues,  after all these years.  Looking back over past production,  it has always been the gearbox that has come into criticism with every B'mann largescale product.  It is usually a criticism based on quality issues,  but in this case,  it seems the quality is inherent,  but the chosen gear ratio in doubt.
#9

Hi Tim.
According to Mr Ames he is not, and never has been, a paid employee of Bachmann.
He merely offers advice to any interested party. Obviously for free if the above line is to be believed.
That has about as much credibility as Mr Ames stating there was no conflict of interest when he (Mr Ames) was on the NMRA DCC committees whilst his wife was, and still is, the USA Lenz distributor.

So there is no reason why Mr Ames cannot comment.
By all means Mr Ames can defend the indefensible if he wishes too.

#10
TonyWalsham said:
Hi Tim. According to Mr Ames he is not, and never has been, a paid employee of Bachmann. He merely offers advice to any interested party. Obviously for free if the above line is to be believed. That has about as much credibility as Mr Ames stating there was no conflict of interest when he (Mr Ames) was on the NMRA DCC committees whilst his wife was, and still is, the USA Lenz distributor.

So there is no reason why Mr Ames cannot comment.
By all means Mr Ames can defend the indefensible if he wishes too.


Sigh

Tony

The NMRA DCC committee is composed of most DCC manufacturers and some users of DCC. I am today still a member of this committee (which currently is not very active) and serve at the request of the committee. I have no more a conflict of interest then for example any of the manufacturers on the committee. My affiliations with various manufacturers are fully disclosed and understood by all in authority.

When I was the NMRA’s NER trustee there was indeed a potential conflict of interest because of my wife’s business that was also fully disclosed as required by the organization. To prevent this potential from becomming an actual conflict I excused myself from any discussion in any area where that potential could possible exist.

Also as fully discluosed my wife pays me to help her set up and tear down at shows and help her out in other tasks from time to time. This is the only employment or payment I receive from anyone in the hobby.

It you have evidence of any improper actions on my part then please document them. If not I think it is very improper for you to spread false information about others.

There is a line between having a disagreement on a topic and resorting to personnel attack. In my opinion the above crosses that line.

It is sad that you fee that the only way to make a point is to try to discredit the individual by spreading false information. It is sad indeed.

Stan Ames
www.tttrains.com/largescale

#11

Nice try Stanley.
It is not going to work trying to play the wounded soldier.
No one believes you any more.

#12

Stan:

Your insistence that the poor engineering choices on the K-27 gear reduction can be made up for by the application of electronic controls that many of us (previously) didn’t need nor want, but would be forced to accept is what severely damages your credibility and leaves you open to attack.

In my opinion, and despite any statements to the contrary, your position as the chosen drive train, electrical and control authority at Bachmann is damaging their large scale efforts and alienating a significant part of their intended audience. As an example, someone very recently asked on the Bachmann Forum if they could run two engines on one track. Immediate answers were “Yes, go buy DCC.” I realize that you were not personally involved in that thread, but I do think you are desperately trying to teach both users and suppliers that the answer to any problem is “Go to DCC.” Considering Bachmann’s most recent offering, it seems be working, IMHO, to the detriment of the hobby.

I like to operate electric trains using my hand on a speed control and throwing turnouts either by hand or direct remote control. I do not want to have to purchase and install decoders, deal with CVs, programming tracks, program engines, buy turnout decoders, nor operate a computer interface to all that stuff. I do respect your wanting to have all that, but your insistence that the rest of must play that way is what is totally out of line. When you oversee the design of a locomotive that requires that stuff just to get it to run within some reasonable speed / power envelope, you are forcing all of us to adhere to your idea of model RRing, thus making you subject to the wrath of the rest of us.

Divulged or not, your personal financial interest in forcing DCC on the whole model RR community is just one more item open to attack.

None of this makes you a bad person, but it does open you to attack from people who don’t want to put up with the crap you are promoting, and who are perhaps a little less than diplomatic in the expression of their views.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#13
Stan Ames said:
There is a line between having a disagreement on a topic and resorting to personnel attack. In my opinion the above crosses that line.

It is sad that you fee that the only way to make a point is to try to discredit the individual by spreading false information. It is sad indeed.

Stan Ames
www.tttrains.com/largescale


Like many other frequent visitors and informed persons who discuss these issues outside the realm of written forums, I am aware of the magnitude of chutzpah making this particular statement represents, and why of anyone here, well, you ought to know, right?

Richard C.

#14

Maybe I should not even be posting here seeing I don’t know Stan and I don’t know S$%3 about the K.

but with that said. The thing I love about this forum is that you get to say what you think, how you feel and whats got your undies in a bind with out sensorship like other sites.

Stan sorry you got your feeling hurt, it has happend to me and others on this site. I for one have learned from it. Bob does a great job with this site and the forum. I love the hands off he does.

I will say this. After having two Backmann loco’s and having truble with them both I am a little skiddish to even think about spending the money a K cost or the new mullet.

Now to be far. I ahve also had truble with a LGB loco see my post on that one. and a Aristo-Craft mullet as well. So you are right in that there can and will be problems in almost eveything. The true test comes in how the truble is delt with.

LGB is gone so its a wait and see with them now.

Aristo-craft is sending me the parts I need to repair the loco at no cost to me.

Backmann? still waiting to see what they say about my e-mail to them but I am not going to hold my breath on anything.

Stan sometimes it is better to admitt a misstake, fix it and move on. Backmann may need to learn this. the great thing about people is we are always will to forgive but not always willing to forget. Seems Backmann is hoping we will forget and not asking we forgive.

Just my 2 cents worth.

#15

One more thing.
Thanks Dave for giving us the truth and not trying to spoon feed us crap.