Large Scale Central

American Hoist and Derrick Log Loaders on a flat car

General Discussion
#1

Hello, I have searched the “search section” on LSC and Google looking for modeler’s information, experience and maybe drawings for an American Hoist and Derrick Log loader without luck. So, I thought I would ask you smart folks if you all have any information squirreled away on how to build one of these beasts for use on a 1:20.3 flat car. I am modeling the Little River RR in East Tennessee and they used these loaders. Here are a couple of prototype pictures and a photo of an HO model to get you all thinking. Anyone make one of these in the past??? Do you know of any drawings, plans or kits??? Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Doc Tom

#2

Hi Tom,
Based on my past expierences on these type projects your going to have to scratch build from plans that you develope yourself.
I have developed and built several projects like this (I assume you are talking about a fine scale or at least semi-scale model not just a block of wood and a stick with wheels and string) and every time I ran against a block wall when looking for drawings or even good information. In every case I ended up using “specification sheets” that listed a few dimensions for particular machines, maybe a line drawing, but mostly pictures.

My suggestions of places to look for information;

Google patient search

Historical Construction Equipment Association

Yahoo groups, 4L, Loyal Legion of logged on loggers

These are all available on line.

There is or at least was available on line somewhere a CD of a 1916 AH&D catalog. Only a couple of pages on the Log Loader and not any real good information on it but the rest of the catalog is a wealth of information on AH&D equipment.

Good luck with your quest.
Rick

PS
If you can get that HO scale model, GRAB it and use it to scale up.

A couple of hints of places

#3

You might be able to modify one of the 1:20.3 AH&D Car Works ditchers …
http://www.rgsrrhobbies.com/index_files/Page435.htm

There were some derrick kits floating around that might make fodder for that kind of thing too.

Matthew (OV)

#4

You might find something useful here:

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=360.0

#5

I have some drawings copied from a magazine. I forget which one–might be SL&NGG.
But they are not that particular prototype.
And in 1:20.3, the thing is huge.

#6

Thank you Rick, Matthew, Ray and John for the very speedy response to my query.

(http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg412/DrGrab/modelRRcartooncopy.gif)

You all have made some good suggestions and given me many leads to pursue. I have made an electronic notebook for these places to search and will enjoy the research. I did not know that there was a “Google patents” site and I was happy to hear that there is a cd of a 1916 AH&D catalog out there. The 1:20.3 RGS AH&D Ditcher looks great and will merit more scrutiny on my part. The Finescale article also had good ideas about kitbashing existing kits. I am already thinking about using the Bachmann boiler and some of the mechanism from their recent 1:20.3 release of a donkey loader. John, if you dig up those drawings I would love to see them and add them to my growing notes on this interesting subject. Thanks again for all your help and HAPPY NEW YEAR. Doc Tom

#7

[quote= I am already thinking about using the Bachmann boiler and some of the mechanism from their recent 1:20.3 release of a donkey loader.

Hi Tom,
I think you will find that the Bachmann “skidder” boiler is about the size of a large hot water heater in 1:20 scale. Just a guess here but you will need something about 2" in diameter and about 5" high/long for the boiler in that loader. The drums might work for size, probably a little small, but they are non operational and I think open on the bottom.

The Bachmann skidder might make a good background model or maybe a tugger engine on a stiff leg but that is about all in 1:20 scale.

The above, is of course, just my opinion
Others milage may vary
Rick

PS
I will try to email you the pages from the catalog

#8

Thanks for the “heads up” Rick. Looks like the Bachmann skidder is going to be too small for parts.

(http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg412/DrGrab/Bachmannskidder.jpg)

I have not seen one of these in the flesh yet, just pictures on the glowing monitor. Maybe I could use the boiler for the loggers wash house…enjoyed your humorous critique. Looks like this will be a scratch build all the way. One of my RR buddies has the HO kit and will be dropping by for me to get a look at the instructions and parts. If you can get the pages from the catalog that would be a big help also. Thanks again for all the good advice. Doc Tom

#9

Tom,

I have the 1977 Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette I believe John is referring to. Contact me off list if you are interested in information from that magazine.

The CD reference by Ricky Marty above may be found here http://www.darrylhuffman.50megs.com/cgi-bin/blog

A little quick internet referencing and I found the following:

A link to the AH&D 1914 Catalog 106 http://www.cabincreekcds.com/AmericanHoist.htm

I hope this will help.

Bob C.

#10

Here is the actual 1915 patent for the AH&D loader:

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=SgJsAAAAEBAJ&dq=American+Hoist+and+Derrick+log+loader

Thanks for this lead Rick.

My friend Bill Nelson a very avid and skilled logging modeler is bringing by his HO Kit and plans for this loader as well. Hopefully we can get to building it in 1:20.3 scale.

                                       Doc Tom
#11
Bob Cope said:
Tom,

I have the 1977 Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette I believe John is referring to. Contact me off list if you are interested in information from that magazine.

The CD reference by Ricky Marty above may be found here http://www.darrylhuffman.50megs.com/cgi-bin/blog

A little quick internet referencing and I found the following:

A link to the AH&D 1914 Catalog 106 http://www.cabincreekcds.com/AmericanHoist.htm

I hope this will help.

Bob C.


Bob

The catalog looks good and not too expensive. Thanks for the help.
Tom

#12

Tom,
Yeah, those are the leads.
Not sure about Cabin Creek but I know Darryl gives direct permission to have the CD printed. About 15-20 bucks at Kinkos of Office Depot , that’s printed and spirel bound.
For me the old printed version is always the best.
Later
Rick

#13

Thanks again Rick. Happy New Year. I hope to get the AH&D loader on a train with pictures sometime in 2011.
Tom

#14

Tom, your prototype photo looks like the unit @ the cradle of forestry museum in NC. I have some pictures of it from my dad’s stuff, not the kind of pictures we would take to document for a build, but they might be some help.

I have in my inventory, a Rio Grande Models HO Kit for a loader, and I have an HO Weiseman Model works brass A H & D ditcher, which the loader is a modification of, so those two Items will be a big help.

You will need to find some rail for the flat cars. LGB rail will be way too big, but we will want to start with the rail on the flat cars. and reverse engineer from there, since you are cheaTING, AND MODELING A STANDARD GAUGE OUTFIT IN NARROW GAUGE we need to go into this carefully, and we need to start with the rails on the flatcar to make it work.

Next we need to think about materials, I’m thinking brass for the structural components might be best for strength. This is going to be fun.

For Y’all on this forum, I’m a longtime collaborator of Dr. Tom’s , who mainly plays in HO HOn3 I have contributed a lot of my Dad’s large scale stuff to Tom’s RR, as with a 130 year old house and 21 acres, and a large HO empire, I doubted I’d ever have enough time to justice to an outdoor RR .

Bill Nelson

#15

Hey Bill,

Welcome aboard. I feel like I’m having a second Christmas with all the help I am getting as we prepare for this fun build.

I think you will enjoy this group as it very helpful and large scale is a lot of fun.

Looking forward to reviewing your stuff in planning and posting some pictures of the build as we go along. Should be interesting.

Mr Bill Nelson is an extremely talented model railroader here in Clarksville Tennessee with modeling roots going back several decades. He and I have shared our HO escapades in logging the mountains of Tennessee since about 1987. We are in the local RR club

When we moved to town I wanted to try my hand at a Garden RR as there was no basement for the HO logging empire and hence the Little River RR in the backyard was born. Bill’s dad was very big in to large scale modeling and Bill has donated a considerable amount of track, time and talent in the building of this new logging adventure.

If you would like to see more of Bill’s HO work it is over at the Zealot.com site at http://www.zealot.com/forum//showthread.php?t=164383. He has some amazing creations.

I think 2011 is going to be a good year with a lot more fun ahead in large scale.
Tom

#16

Tom,

For the rail for the car, I have some Code 148 left over from my O scale days, and I have some code 170 something (I think). These would probably be close to what would have been used, I think.

Bob C.

#17
Bob Cope said:
Tom,

For the rail for the car, I have some Code 148 left over from my O scale days, and I have some code 170 something (I think). These would probably be close to what would have been used, I think.

Bob C.


That is very nice of you to offer it. Would you like to sell a couple of pieces to get Bill and I started on the actual construction? We can work out the details by private email.
Tom

#18

Welcome aboard, Bill. Glad to hear Tom has a co-conspirator in his area. Tom, Happy New Year! I worked at this a couple of year’s ago, wanting to bring a USA MOW Crane up to some type of loader. Just faking it and trying to get a representation. Using a diesel engine platform to bring it out of the steam age. I know you want the steam, but the idea was to bring the Crane up more toward a 1:20.3 scale.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/050205%20009.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/050205%20014.jpg)

#19

By installing the diesel power plant and some bigger employees and clearing the individual panes of glass out of the windows and doors, I got a general representation. Never finished it as far as the platform and some stabilizing struts.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/050205%20004.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/050205%20008.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/050205%20013.jpg)

Just some ideas.

#20

Ric Golding said:
Welcome aboard, Bill. Glad to hear Tom has a co-conspirator in his area. Tom, Happy New Year! I worked at this a couple of year’s ago, wanting to bring a USA MOW Crane up to some type of loader. Just faking it and trying to get a representation. Using a diesel engine platform to bring it out of the steam age. I know you want the steam, but the idea was to bring the Crane up more toward a 1:20.3 scale.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/050205%20009.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/050205%20014.jpg)

Nice pictures Ric. I am glad someone else was trying this project out. Interestingly the American Hoist and Derrick switched to gasoline and diesel power late in rail road logging’s history. They even continued with the same basic “floor plan” but did have to put in a counterweight when they took out the big heavy boiler. Doc Tom