Large Scale Central

Aluminum track and switches

Track and Trestles
#1

Sorry I jumped into another post. Since I am new to posting I didn’t know the proper etiquet. To pick up where I left off I am new to garden railroading and am concerned that I don’t make a major mistake on laying my first sections of track. I plan to run batter power with RC on my trains. From what I have read running track power has too many headaches. With the current cost of track I have decided to use aluminum. My first concern is whether I should go with code 250 or code 332. What is the best choice for ease of long term maintenance? Either looks good to me and I think either should be OK for train operation. I am just concerned that code 250 might be a little flimsy and easily bent and twisted. The cost difference between the two is not that great. What manufacturer do most of you recommend for rail and ties? I want to start with molded plastic tie strips and may graduate to hand laid down the road. I plan to initally purchase a set of switches for a passing siding. Than I might consider trying to make a switch on my own. Read several articles and I think I can handle it. I am hoping to get a loop of track down before Thanksgiving. I live in the Dover Delaware area and the winters around here are fairly mild. I was thinking of floating the track but it sounds like most of you use “Ladder” construction. I have to read up on that. Is there a site with information I can log on to? I want to order rail, tie strips and switches ASAP so your comments would be greatly apreciated.

Big John

#2

Hi, John,

I really can’t advise you about track. I use code 332 stainless as I was trying to make track power work. I am slowly switching over to battery power. I’ll be using a lot of trail cars initially, as the cost of outfitting the number of locomotives that I have is prohibitive, if done all at once. Code 332 is a lot more user friendly, but code 250 is more to scale. If you go with track on the ground, I think I would use code 332 for its strength. If most of your track is on a raised bed or elevated in some manner, then you can easily use code 250. I guess I just did advise you on track… :lol:

Regarding the ladder method, here is a good discussion of the ladder method. Many folks have used Trex, a synthetic wood product. They do not seem to report back how successful they were. In our club, we tried Trex, but found it to be too flimsy. I use redwood as it is readily available. Others use cedar. Trex is more expensive than either, at least at retail in the Pacific NorthWest. Your milage may vary.

If you are considering hand laying your track, floating it just will not work. The ladder method will present a lot of difficulties, too. I am considering building my own switches, but I would never consider hand laying outdoor track. Again, your milage may vary.

SteveF

#3

I’ll pipe in here. I hand-lay my own turnouts on cedar ties, and I use code 250 aluminum or brass, depending on what I have on hand. My track is attached to splines like Bruce Chandler’s. My spline is made out of Tuf-Board and braced every 18 inches or so. So far no problems in the few months I’ve had it down. Originally I had my hand laid stuff floating, but after 3 years, about a quarter of it started to come apart from movement, so I went with spline.

#4

Hi John, I live just south of you near Ocean City, MD and mainly use the float method. My biggest problem has been moles. A friend in PA with a 10 yr old railroad (900’)is floated aluminium 250(a few hand laid switches) and has settled for a minimum of reballasting each year. I don’t mind reballasting(300’ of track) but for less maintainance go with the ladder.

#5

Here’e some stuff on ladder.

http://www.btcomm.com/trains/primer/roadbed/ladder1.htm

#6

Hi John,

Welcome to this great site. I have used both code 250 and code 332 track in brass not aluminum. As long as you support the track good, either should be OK. I originally used treated plywood on posts to support my rail. It worked OK, put after a few years it started coming apart.

Currently I use the spline/ladder system, but instead of trex I use redwood. I cut the outside splines on the table saw to 1/4" thick and still use the 2x2 blocks at 6" spacing. I attach the blocks to one side with glue and 1/4" staples. At this point you can bent it to what ever desired radius you what. I use jigs set at my desired radiuses. Then attach a spline to the other side with glue & staples. This gives you the ladder. Finally, I attach a second 1/4" spline to each side with glue & staples and place spring clamps at each block.

By following this method, I get no stress on the curved pieces and it is actually stronger then splines that are 1/2" thick. Redwood won’t rot and I have had no deflection in this system in over 3 years of use. Even pieces that has not seen track. In fact, I have a bridge unit that is over 15’ long with this method of ladder as the base, with wooden ties glued and brad nailed to the ladder. Then I hand spiked the rail to the bridge with the inside guard. After two years of sun, rain, and snow it’s still in great shape other than needing a little paint.

I would post some pictures, but I don’t know how and the bridge in now in the garage waiting for it’s new assignment on the rebuilt layout.

Chuck

#7

Welcome Aboard! I too am a handlayer and I use Code 250 AL that I get from Stretch at CO&Ry. A year and a half ago or so I made the decision to raise my layout up out of the dirt and onto a pressure treated lumber benchwork style. So far it proven satisfactory. Some minor things that had to be done to the track, and some errors in lumber selection that I had to go through. Ya don;t want yer aluminum track where it can e stepped on, but then again…ya don’t want people stepping on track period. One thing ya gotta look at is that AL expands and contracts a lot more than all the others, so its best to put track down on the hottest day of the year…

#8

Thanks for the link to the ladder system. I plan to go with the code 332 aluminum just for the extra added strength as the oversize look doesn’t bother me. If I can I will post a few photos when I get my track and ladder system started. One more question concerning expansion and contraction. Since the aluminum will move with temperature and I will be installing track in November is there something I should do to allow for this expansion that is sure to come with the summer weather? How often, every one or every other or every third etc:, should I screw down the track on the center spacer blocks? Should these screws be slightly loose, snug or tight? Is it necessary to slot the ties around the curves to allow them to move under the screws and sort of float in and out with weather changes? What is the best type of screw to use? I am guessing a pan head that I could paint black after installation to cover it up.

Big John

#9

It depends on what brand of track you’re gonna use. Sectional stuff like Aristo’s you could probably get away with leaving a 16th" gap in every section. The 5’ flex track leave a bit more. I screw mine down about every 2’ or so with black deck screws about an inch long. Don’t screw them down so tight you flatten out the tie, just enough so it doesn’t move around on you. I screw mine into the spacer block and most of the time the holes in the ties don’t line up with the spacer. As long as you leave a small gap in the rail where it joins, movement shouldn’t be a problem.

#10

One of the issues with 332 is the vertical stiffness.

Virtually impossible to get a smooth vertical curve.
Tends to kink at joiners.

I use 215 and 250 aluminum.
Had 215 been readily available when I started, it would ALL be 215.

Whenever I see photos in GR, of highly-detailed equipment, all I see is 332 rail and turn the page.

The least they could do is have a yard of smaller rail to take photos on.

In 16 years, I have had one issue with aluminum rail, and it would have been the same for 332.
4" diameter branch came 50’ out of a tree, end went straight into rails.
I straightened one rail, cut out, saved, and replaced about 12" of the other.

With aluminum, don’t clean it. Your tractive effort will improve.

#11
Curmudgeon said:
One of the issues with 332 is the vertical stiffness.

Virtually impossible to get a smooth vertical curve.
Tends to kink at joiners.


What do you mean by this statement? Are you referring to the rises and dips in the level of the layout?
All the rail I have purchased is 332 because I couldn’t get anything else locally.
I have been following several forums? fora? on track laying as I am getting close to actually putting something down on the ground I have been avoiding it because a lot of the back yard needs to be landscaped and now that we have water restrictions (which don’t look like ever ending)(maybe global warming is real) the lawn has to go. This means I need to replace it with some thing else, maybe, gravel.
regards
Dave

#12

I ordered some code 250 aluminum rail and plastic tie strips. I could not find any code 332 and decided the 250 would be OK. I also went to the local Lowe’s and could not find any of the 1" PVC trim board that was suggested I use for the sides of my ladders. They did have some 1/2" x 5" x 6’ sythetic cedar fence boards. The sales clerk told me they were HDPE with a wood fiber filler. Guaranteed not to rot or crack, UV resistant. Nice looking reddish cedar color and had a wood grain to boot. These would not need painting as they are not the white color of the PVC. Has anyone used this type of material. I bought ten pieces to take home and try. The price on the shelf said they were listed at $2.78 each. But I got a shock when I went to the checkout counter as they rang up on sale for $1.49. I figure I can cut three 1 1/2 wide strips, six feet long from each piece. What would you recommend for size and spacing of blocks to make a sample ladder to try for strength and rigidity. I guess I could double up the outside strips and end up with 1" wide side panels. I also bought two ten foot pieces of 1 1/2" rigid plastic conduit. I plan to use these for the vertical supports as I will not have any square pieces from ripping 2 x 4 Trex boards. Trex was just way to expensive. Will this diameter pipe be stiff enough to support an elevated section of track three and a half feet in the air? That is how high I calculate the elevation will be on my finished tressel. I will probably be able to drive the pipe 5" or 6" into the ground.

Big John

#13

John,
I think you probably got a bargain on that imitation cedar. Nice.

I use inch and a quarter schedule 40 PVC pipe that has an OD ov about an inch and five eights. This is nice and rigid and I can drive this into my sandy loam as far as I need to drive it, especially if the ground is wet. Conduit might be a bit thin walled for this purpose, but I don’t know what it is that you have on hand. It is the thickness of the pipe wall coupled with the diameter that provides the necessary stiffness.

As I said before, I use redwood for my ladder, and space the blocks about every 2 feet or so. With synthetic wood, your biggest problem will be on tangents, as curves seem to provide the tension needed for rigidity in the ladder. Tangents seem to sag if there is not enough vertical support. You will have to experiment. Some folks say 6 inches for the synthetic wood, others say a foot. That is the fun of this hobby, finding out what works for you.

As you make your ladder, you might consider designing it so that the ends of the boards are not at the same place. This will make the curves a lot smoother.

The trestle should be stiff enough to support the track without any pipe being driven into the ground. Space the bents every 7 - 9 inches or so.

#14

I may have to see if I can find those ‘imitation cedar’ boards at my local Lowes. Sounds like great tie material.

#15

I plan to make a twelve foot section of ladder tomorrow. I will be sure to space the inside joints so they are in the middle of the outside joints. I only plan to use the plastic conduit to support the ladder and track until I can make the tressel bents. They will be built to fill in from the bottom of the ladder to the ground and then the conduit will be removed. But the conduit may be in place for several months until I get the bents made.

I guess these boards would make good looking ties. Never thought about that as I plan to use plastic tie strips for the present time. They were called composite cedar fence boards. Like I said they are 1/2" thick, 5" wide and 6’ long. They have one end cut in a dog ear pattern. Our local Lowes had six racks of them. I guess that is why they put them on sale to clear them out before winter.

If my practice ladder works out I plan to go back and buy about 60 pieces. That would make up around 540’ of ladder. I expect my finished layout to be around 500’ of track. I will use treated lumber for spacers. If I can I will try to post a pictue.

Big John