Large Scale Central

Advice on using live steam with very heavy gradients

Electronics Live Steam
#1
Hi
 
I am considering the addition of live steam to the running on my layout.
I have some very heavy gradients on my line (10+% in places). These are there due to no other solution that is practicable.
 
I have tested the layout with a friend's little Regner 'Konrad' steamer and it performed well but found it hard to drag more than two small cars behind it up the slopes. It was good due to its reduction gearing.
 
I am considering purchasing one of the Regners, possibly the lumberjack (with the gearing upgrade) and also the Accucraft 3 cylinder shay. My Bachmann electric 1:20.3 shay does pull up to 7 log cars up, the slopes so I was hoping that the live steam Accucraft version would also have the pulling power.
I am aware thet the oil that the steamer will lay down on the track might affect the adhesion.
 
has anyone got any experiences with the Accucraft 3 cylinder live steam Shay?
#2

To get a live steamer to pull anything up steep grades you need an awful lot of steam pressure. Unless that steam pressure is rapidly reduced going downgrade you will experience runaways.

That means R/C to control the steam regulator.

#3

@ Mike - with grades like that you need tracked vehicles, NOT miniature live-steamers.

From practical experience with the 3-c Shay, you WILL be limited to a MAXIMUM of about 3% for a SHORT grade - say 15 feet. Shays use steam like crazy - with three cylinders whistlin’ around like a hopped-out dervish in a kitchen blender. Unlike electricity, where you can crank up the A and get the V as and when, instantly, steam generation just doesn’t work like that.

Trust Mr Wlasham and me and anybody else who runs live steam - the results that you got from the extremely high-geared Regner loco is about as good as you’ll ever get, bearing in mind also the point that you made about oily tracks - an unavoidable feature of runing a live-steamer.

tac, ig, ken the GFT & The Port Orford Streetlight Band Boys

#4

I have to agree with Tony & Terry. I run a 2 Cyl Accucraft Shay on my RR which has a long curving grade grade of mostly 4% but spots up to 6%. I have serious traction issues after the first run. R/C is pretty much a requirement on my RR for several reasons including the grade. I can only pull a few cars up the grade with the steamer. My Sparky Shay will pull quite a few more with no issue.

#5

Mike,

I also run a 2 cylinder Accucraft Shay. It does the job and is easy to maintain. I don’t have radio control and have used it to switch the Craig Leigh Yard on the IPP&WRR during two of the Annual American Invasions.

#6

Mike good to see over here. Your best bet if you did get a Shay would be to add a siding at the bottom and maybe top. Then bring one car at a time. If use lighter logs like the Bachmann that will take weight off the Shay to pull. If you know someone with a Shay test it out first. Since you know Regner will go up that might be your best bet. You will no doubt need RC but that’s easy enough to install.

Is it possible to make a small steam up loop?

Post some pictures of your layout. I think the guys over here will like them.

#7

Hi Mike,

My 3 cylinder shay was able to take 10% grades if I allowed the pressure to run up over 40psi. Most of my line was 4%, but the first stretch of 10-15ft was a lot steeper. The loco was able to pull 6 loaded LGB disconnects with plastic wheels, or 3 Spectrum flats with metal wheels without much slipping, even after many runs. This step section, of course was mostly straight with a couple of very gentle custom bent curves on each end.

The engine used a lot of steam, but I found I could throttle back the gas shortly after the heavy grade to avoid releasing the safety when the terrain settled out. I also had a method for adding water systematically. Like many loggin RRs, I ran the train point-to-point, push-pull, so I was always stopping at the top of the hill for water (and presumably to load or unload logs) and again at the bottom of the hill to raise pressure and change direction for the climb ahead.

#8

Nice pictures, Jeff. What are the rough-looking wooden things I can see there? :wink:

Best

tac, in nigh-on treeless East Anglia

#9

Hi Tac,

Many folks have made note of my less-than-hefty looking log loads…(they are very lightweight for the big hill). I suppose when you see the 1:1 lumber looming over the scene it becomes clear I would need a much bigger train!

#10

I was

a. referring to the vertical wooden objects, called, I believe, ‘trees’., because

b. Cambridgeshire, the county in which I live, being mainly agricultural, has the least number of ‘trees’ of any county in England. It is a standing joke among those forced to live here.

tac

#11

lol, “forced to live here”

#12

Yup, that’s what I wrote, and that’s what I meant. You really have no idea, and I’m not going to explain, either.

tac

#13

Tac,

That’s what I figured you meant…just wanted to add the bit about my log loads, as I rarely even “see” (or perhaps appreciate) the big trees in the background.

BTW,

Another great way to help live steam on grades…add Ball Bearing wheelsets in the rolling stock. Best way to increase your loco’s pulling ability by far. I’ve only had experience with LGB’s product, which are extremely low-drag. I’m not sure ACC’s BB products compare as well?

#14

That’s MY plan next time we are over in the real world, to buy a few sets of BB axles for some of my heavier home-built stock. On the level, my 3-c Shay easily hauls thirty cars and once, fifty-six UK-style cars. The power is there without doubt, but grades are something we try hard to avoid on the mainly Gauge 1 tracks I get to run on.

You really need to a called Trump to afford LGB’s BB axles here in yUK

tac

#15

Great shot Jeff.

tac you can always plant some trees out your way and maybe in 100 years they will be big enough :wink:

Next time your in the real world you should stop down here in Jersey.

#16

Yep, gives you a reason to live that long Tac.

I have to admit, I’m spoiled. I live in a forest so I have plenty of trees.