Large Scale Central

Adding sound to older LGB Mogul

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

I have an older LGB 21181 pre-sound, pre-DCC Mogul. I am installing a Zimo 696S decoder with sound in it. There are only 6 wires/pins running between the engine and tender. Two are for the track power pickups at the wheels. Two are for the speaker. Which leaves two left. The problem is I would like to keep my Sound unit function trigger which takes 3 wires, leaving me one short.

What are my options? What have others done?

I do use track magnets to activate the bell as the trains enter the station and a whistle before the bridge so I want to keep this function if possible.

Thanks,

Dan

#2

I have done this engine with Zimo decoders.

I place the decoder in the fire box and add 2 round reeds at the rear of the engine, just in front of the rear coupler. Now I run wires to the tender, 2 for track power (already there),and 2 for a FRS7 speaker in the tender (I run a separate 2 wire connection and speaker does not need polarization for the 2 wire connection). The speaker goes in place of the weight as the speaker is heavy enough to replace the weight. I do drill holes for the sound to exit out the bottom of the tender. Note the FRS7 comes in 8 and 4 ohm versions and the 4 ohm will get you the full 10 watt audio power of a zimo decoder. I also program the 5 volt smoke unit with 3 different heat values via CV 137-139. Tie the lights and smoke to the 10 volt line and set CV 60 to 150 to get lower voltage to the lights. Also set CV 114 to not lower voltage to the smoke unit if you use the 3 heats (I use F6 for smoke and set CV 114 to 128 and CV132 to 72). I have done more than 10 LGB moguls this way.

#3

Thank you very much, Sir.

I do plan to put the decoder in the firebox where the old one was.

Do you have a link or part # to the reed switches I need and pic of how they are installed? The ones I am envisioning are long and I think need to be laid horizontal.

This particular engine already has a 24v smoke stack and bulbs installed because the old ones burnt out when I installed the MTS 55021 years ago. Would those CV values still work? I will try these values with my other, newer mogul though.

I know I can put lower value bulbs back in, and probably will switch to LEDs someday, but I have to order them and wait for shipping. It already took a month to get these decoders due to the Virus.

I’m using the K64 speaker. It fits under the weight with just a little bit of material removed from the weight. I don’t run my trains very loud. But if I blow the speaker, then I will go to the bigger one. I did drill holes.

I have a volume adjuster knob from the old 65001 setup poking out of the tender’s bottom. Would I splice it in to one of the speaker wires?

#4

Looking at the decoder, it doesn’t say which speaker output is positive or negative. Just says LS for both pins. The retailer’s tech didn’t know the answer. Anyone figured out which pin is which? Besides getting the correct speaker phase, I need to know to wire up the pot. I guess if the pot doesn’t work, I need to swap the wires.

OK - I see where you said earlier that the speaker doesn’t need polarization. Thank you.

#5

I mount the round reeds vertical just in front of the rear engine coupler, plenty of room for these and I did drill a hole through the chassis for these round reeds. Other way is to place glass reeds on the inside bottom rear of the motor block.

24 volt smoke units do not work well for how I run my trains. My DCC system does place 24 volts on the track, but LGB runs smoke units ‘hot’. Spec for the 5 volt unit from seuthe is 4-7 volts and LGB runs then between 6.2 and 6.8 volts. So, for my system I use the 18 volt units and program idle volts low, run volts medium and acceleration at a hot voltage (like 20 volts). I also used the usa and Aristo fan driven units but the voltages are 5 volts for the motors and 10 volts max for the heaters. Current Trainli smoke units have 15 volt max. heaters.

Just remember that when programming lights and heaters the Zimo decoders use pulsed power so start low with values and adjust by eye for best results. Indoors I keep values lower, do not need smoke plumes inside!!!

#6

Derailed said:

I have an older LGB 21181 pre-sound, pre-DCC Mogul. I am installing a Zimo 696S decoder with sound in it. There are only 6 wires/pins running between the engine and tender. Two are for the track power pickups at the wheels. Two are for the speaker. Which leaves two left. The problem is I would like to keep my Sound unit function trigger which takes 3 wires, leaving me one short.

What are my options? What have others done?

I do use track magnets to activate the bell as the trains enter the station and a whistle before the bridge so I want to keep this function if possible.

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Dan/Derailed - Since you’re converting this Mogul to DCC, I’m wondering why you want to install a sound activation trigger for the whistle and bell…that’s all done with your DCC controller. For some DCC conversions of LGB locos I do for customers, they want to be able to also run on DC/Analog occasionally, so they do want me to install the reed trigger unit and a Pot volume control unit. But if you’re not going to run DC sound, then why bother…just curious. Actually, for a recent customer’s Mogul conversion to DCC, he wanted these two DC/Analog features installed so I removed the existing 6-pin cable/socket from the Mogul to the tender and installed a 10-pin one. Then I was able to install all devices/functions into the tender: Track Power Pickup (2 wires); Rear backup light (2 wires); Sound activation trigger (3 wires); and Pot Volume Control (3 (wires). That way I could reuse the existing LGB Sound Function Trigger already installed onto the tender’s front truck to save him a little money. I recently set up a Parts & Accessories site on my Website if you need any of the Massoth devices…Pot or Sound Function Trigger. https://www.olddominionrailways.com/parts-for-sale

You didn’t mention anything about converting the LGB 21181 Mogul’s motor block from 3-pin to 4-pin in order to install a DCC decoder. So, I assume you know how to do that which can be a little challenging.

Good luck

Tom

#7

When I add sound to the LGB moguls, I remove the weight in the tender and then install the Visiton FRS7. This comes in 4 and 8 ohm versions and is fairly heavy so the LGB weight is not needed.

Sound output of the decoder is rated at 10 watts to a 4 ohm speaker!! For large Bachmann tenders I use the FRS8 4 ohm.

#8

Tom, The loco was already built with the 4 wires so it must have been a newer version.

I already had the sound unit function trigger installed from when I was running the 65001. Plus I still use the track magnet for the Bell as the engines enter the station. I am a roundy-rounder and like things automated.

Right now I have a second set of two wires going to the tender with a little quick disconnect for the trigger inputs. But I never thought of switching it to a ten-pin connector. Didn’t realize that was an option. I assume I would have to change out that circuit board with all the pins that the ribbon cable mates to. How would I get my hands on that small circuit board?

My engine doesn’t have a rear lamp. Not sure if other versions of this Mogul had one. My other coal tendered Mogul has a rear lamp. One day I might add one but I would need two more wires available.

Right now I have the following into the tender.

Track power - two wires

Speaker - Two wires

Supercaps - two wires but the ground is shared with sound trigger.

Sound unit trigger - 3 wires but the ground shared with Supercaps

I have a LGB pot switch left over from the 65001 install but I am not sure how to wire it. Plus, I can change the volume through CVs and my ProCab’s function buttons but it is a PITA. The volume is tied to buttons 23 and 24 and fine tuning the volume is a bit awkward. I am sure there is a better way to do it.

#9

Derailed/Dan - Wow, you’ve provided a lot of information! The prior owner of your Mogul may have switched the motor block with an LGB 65019 4-pin motor block. I wish LGB/Marklin would start making them again since there are so many of the older LGB Moguls made with the 3-pin motor blocks. So, I just create a “4-pin” motor block by soldering a wire to the left motor terminal after I isolate it from the track power pickup pin…also requires expanding the pin hole to accommodate both the power pickup pin and the new wires to the motor. But you don’t need to worry about doing any of this.

The maximum size of LGB Mogul Tender’s green circuit boards are 6-pin, some older Moguls only 3-pin. So, for the installation I did on one specific Mogul tender, I kept all functions in it the original factory install, I removed the existing 6-pin board and replaced it with a 12-pin connector…no circuit board. The devices/functions it supported back to the new Massoth DCC XLS Sound Decoder in the Mogul: speaker - 2 wires; rear taillight - 2 wires; track power pickup - 2 wires; Massoth POT - 3 wires; existing LGB Sound Function Trigger on the truck - 3 wires. But it was very tedious soldering the 12 wires on those small pins on the back of the connector.

So, for any future DCC sound conversions to LGB Moguls, I’m going to use the approach the newer LGB Moguls with DCC onboard sound decoder use: Massoth Sound Function Trigger Board inside Mogul’s motor block rear wheels; Massoth POT installed on rear of Mogul’s firebox; and use the existing 6-pin connector/board in tender for the speaker, taillight, and track power pickup. Installing a replacement 12-pin connector into the tender is just too much effort. But it’s also a lot of effort to install the Massoth Sound Function Trigger (reed switch) into the Mogul’s motor block…I have to Dremel down the size of the board to fit it there.

To use the existing LGB Sound Function Trigger on your tender’s front truck, , the simplest approach would be to run a separate 3-pin cable with a disconnect between the tender and the Mogul. You could drill a small hole into the front of the tender to run the cable out. I do have non-LGB but similar connectors and plugs I bought on eBay from China, various sizes up to 12-pin. If you want to buy a set cheaply, contact me directly: [email protected]

Tom

#10

Thank you. I basically did what you are suggesting and drilled a hole through the “bumper” next to the 6 pin connector and ran two of the wires out to a small quick disconnect, then ran the wire into the slot where the sound power switch should be. The third wire I ran into the tender and piggybacked it with the supercap’s ground.

I did buy this one used but I am the one who replaced the guts with a 55021 wayyy back when. Maybe I did the conversion when I installed that decoder but I don’t remember having to do it. I remember it being very straight forward and easy, just plugging the wires to the pins. Could be wrong though. It has three pins with German color codes and another wire (yellow I think) coming from inside the motor block. At any rate, it is working fine and gets the most mileage since its so purty.

#11

Note LGB moguls came in 2 basic engine versions and 3 tender versions.

There was the wood engine and tender did not have a rear light. tenders had 3 and 6 pin connectors

There is the coal version and the tender always had the rear light tenders had 3 and 6 pin connectors

Also one oil version, 5 pin connector and used the 2-4-0 sound oil tender and the 69232 coal tender is the same 5 pin wiring and has sound.

#12

Derailed said:

Thank you. I basically did what you are suggesting and drilled a hole through the “bumper” next to the 6 pin connector and ran two of the wires out to a small quick disconnect, then ran the wire into the slot where the sound power switch should be. The third wire I ran into the tender and piggybacked it with the supercap’s ground.

I did buy this one used but I am the one who replaced the guts with a 55021 wayyy back when. Maybe I did the conversion when I installed that decoder but I don’t remember having to do it. I remember it being very straight forward and easy, just plugging the wires to the pins. Could be wrong though. It has three pins with German color codes and another wire (yellow I think) coming from inside the motor block. At any rate, it is working fine and gets the most mileage since its so purty.

Dan Derailed - The yellow wire coming from the motor block means someone soldered the wire to the left motor terminal to create an equivalent 4-pin motor block…it’s not just a plug-in the wires to the pins procedure unless the motor block is actually a 4-pin unit. I do have some 10-pin cables with connectors and sockets available if you need one. These are the non-LGB type connectors -sockets but can be used to replace the existing LGB devices if you need more wires for installing devices such as the sound activation trigger or POT volume control unit inside the tender. I’ll try to post a photo but I haven’t been successful doing so in the past.

Okay, it didn’t work as usual, got an error message when trying to add a photo or an attachment. So, if interested, you can see the 10-pin cable/connector/socket on my Website: https://www.olddominionrailways.com/copy-of-parts You would rewire the existing cable from the loco’s circuit board and remove the existing socket and green circuit board from the tender and replace them with this socket and rewire the devices to these wires.

Tom

#13

Thank you for the offer. Right now I am ok with the engine as it is all together and working.

I must have done the conversion and don’t remember as I am the one who removed the original circuit board to install the MTS decoder.