Large Scale Central

Add a loop?

Track and Trestles
#1

Over in This Thread TOC suggested that I install a loop somewhere to avoid turning trains on the Wye when I just want to sit and have trains running. My reply was the argument that I didn’t have a place to do it. Last night while running trains at dusk I noticed that Deep Cut could be used as an underpass. The light bulb lit up and I saw a loop crossing the main at deep cut, then through a diamond on one of the Wye legs then retuning to the main. It would look something like this…

Where the loop turns left, it would cross on an overpass. Where it crosses next would be a diamond. The Wye is not drawn exactly to scale, and I’m not certain I can get around some pine trees and still stay within my lot line… but there is hope :smiley: I don’t see a way to work a sectional track crossing diamond into the existing Wye, so a custom made job will have to do. I’ve played with building stub switches with some success. Is a Diamond much harder (or easier) to build than a switch? JR

#2

Neat idea! Operationally, you could use it as a run-through mine loadout, or put a brick halfway during an ops session, and treat it as 2 spurs! A diamond is about as difficult as a switch, but in different ways. A few hints. Solder all 4 crossings. make sure your check rails are PERFECT! I waited until after the track was down to try and attach the checkrails, and I now have to rebuild the crossing!

#3
Jon Radder said:
Over in [url=http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=6405]The Wye is not drawn exactly to scale, and I'm not certain I can get around some pine trees and still stay within my lot line... but there is hope :D

I don’t see a way to work a sectional track crossing diamond into the existing Wye, so a custom made job will have to do. I’ve played with building stub switches with some success. Is a Diamond much harder (or easier) to build than a switch?

JR


Jon,

Did you calculate the grades??

A diamond is as easy as a turnout, but to get the rails perfectly aligned I’d put one track down, then gap and add the first rail of the crossing track. Adding the second rail will be easy.

And yes, I would add brass screws to solder to, just in case. :wink: :slight_smile:

#4
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Jon,

Did you calculate the grades??


Not yet. It will be very steep. I’ve got about 21 feet to make the bridge height. That looks like 4.75% but maybe more. With the curved track it might be too much to handle.

I’m going to do a feasibility survey tonight. Check the lot line, tree locations and grade.

Did I mention the track is Stainless & powered??? Makes building your own that much more difficult. Soldering is a possibility, but I’ll try to avoid it.

So now your going to say I can’t have conventional track power and a continuous run with two reversing loops. I knew that. Continuous runs would be limited to self contained power. DCC offers some automated options, but I’m resisting going there. Had the cash saved, but never bought the system.

JR

#5

Speaking of Diamonds… I’m not real familiar with track work, so I’m not sure if I have all the elements correct. Is this the general rail arrangement for a 90 degree crossing?

The flanageway width is a guesstimate; can’t decide which standard to follow :open_mouth: -THAT and there is an error in the drawing. I was trying to set them all to 2.25MM Jon

#6

Jon,

I like that track plan. It looks like something that would actually happen by necessity of terrain or other obstacles.

#7

Wednesday night a special move took the survey crew out with their laser equipment just before dark. The lot line was found to be much further away from the present main then originally thought (that is good). The grade was measured and found to be significant. The rise is 2 feet over a 31 foot run, or about 6.5%. I have plenty of clearance for the overpass so I could cut the rise by a few inches, but it will still exceed 5%.

Late last night the over engineering department put the survey data into the computer and plotted a close to accurate as-built track plan for the area including obstacles like trees. No time to convert and upload tonight as I’m off to the EBT, but will post the updated track plan next week.

JR

#8
Jon Radder said:
Wednesday night a special move took the survey crew out with their laser equipment just before dark. The lot line was found to be much further away from the present main then originally thought (that is good). The grade was measured and found to be significant. The rise is 2 feet over a 31 foot run, or about 6.5%. I have plenty of clearance for the overpass so I could cut the rise by a few inches, but it will still exceed 5%.

Late last night the over engineering department put the survey data into the computer and plotted a close to accurate as-built track plan for the area including obstacles like trees. No time to convert and upload tonight as I’m off to the EBT, but will post the updated track plan next week.

JR


Jon,

Is there any possibility to lower the track that leads under the proposed loop i.e start a down grade from the diamond and do the same with the straight portion of the Wye right after the turnout that goes over to the diamond.

#9

Trouble with stainless is soldering it.

I know Stretch at C&OC makes custom stuff in 332 brass, if it’s just spiked into solid plastic ties (like Llagas makes), and bent over on the back like thay do, should work.

Call him or e-mail him.

Send a sketch and a rough idea of the degree of angle.

You might have to provide him with rail.

Looks do-able!

#10

Looking at that plan, if you really do have more space toward the property line, perhaps you could make the loop bigger, to stretch out the grade somewhat… starting up earlier (perhaps BEFORE the wye turnout,) and then after the bridge a longer loop before the diamond to come down more slowly… possibly coming back into the curve of the lower leg of the wye, with the diamond further to the left.

Particularly since the loop is designed for “hands off” auto-running, the less grade you have the more consistent the running will be.

Matthew (OV)

#11

Somehow I missed the replies to this thread - sorry for ignoring everyone.

Hans - Technically I could lower the track in the Wye tail, but this would be a major pain, especially since the switch is mounted on a reinforced concrete pad about 8 inches thick. That, and I prefer to keep the tails flat so I can spot cars if needed.

TOC - Yup. I bought the stuff to try and solder stainless a few years ago, but have never tried. I could deal with a NS crossing if I must. I won’t know the exact angle until I get close to laing track. I might get lucky, but will probably need a custom job. Thanks for the contact.

Matthew - Good thoughts. I can’t start before the wye turnout because that would be on a bridge that leads to a cut in a rock wall that is only 1 track wide, but I can push toward the lot line more than I first thought. My only issue will be protecting the track from the neighbor’s lawn moving service I’ll probably need to install a stone border. I’ll definitely consider tying into the lower leg of the wye - that will require a custom curved switch and a curved diamond. Probably not something I’m capable of in SS.

See the next post for an update with photos.

JR

#12

Once the survey crew had the lot line marked, I got out the old garden hose and roughly laid out where the track would run. I haven’t yet figured the total grade or the radius of the loop curve, but it is looking doable. NOTE: To view 1024x768 enlargements - right click on the picture and select “Open Link In New Window” This photo shows the lot line plus has the proposed track highligted… [url=jon.barnbeckplace.com/Loop_Plan-1024-2.jpg]

[/url] From the across the main, the bridge and the diamond are visible… [url=jon.barnbeckplace.com/Loop_Plan-1024-3.jpg]

[/url] Approximate diamond angle… [url=jon.barnbeckplace.com/Loop_Plan-1024-4.jpg]

[/url] Looking down grade… [url=jon.barnbeckplace.com/Loop_Plan-1024-5.jpg]

[/url] At this point in the season it’s unlikely I’ll get any track down. Weekends are taken picking up after the trees and dark is closing in by the time I get home from work during the week. At best I’ll get the plan refined, radius and grade calculated and documentation filed for spring building project. JR

#13

Jon,

You might want to consider getting some rock marking that border first. Your statement about the neighbor’s lawn service may be the most critical part of this entire project. Somehow getting that boundary established and protected for future track laying seems to be not only important, but also an inspiring statement and a constant reminder to you of some track expansion that you have in the planning stages.

#14

Good thought Ric.

I have some Belgium Block stacked up in the back yard that I could use - just skim enough dirt to make it flat, then lay the block. It will also help maintain the roadbed that will be a few inches higher than the present grade.

Sounds like a good project for late November. We have a mild winter forecast. The last time that happened we got record snows.

JR

#15

OK John…I apologize if this has been addressed previously and I just missed it…Where does the Big Cut Go??? Do you really have a deep trench cut in your front yard?

#16

Bart Salmons said:
OK John…I apologize if this has been addressed previously and I just missed it…Where does the Big Cut Go??? Do you really have a deep trench cut in your front yard?

This is the now infamous Deep Cut. Yes, it’s in my front yard, about 30" at the deepest, tapering to grade. It goes no-where, just the tail of a Wye. Was going to be a dead end tunnel, but I never bought the stuff to finish it. If I had a miniature tunnel bore, I could cross the road (look out for the water main). Nay-sayers said it wouldn’t last 6 months, but it’s survived two winters. There are many who worried about the trees. No sign that they care a few small roots were cut (I did leave that big one). It will cave in eventually, at which point I’ll slope the sides and line with rock. Track is mounted on PT, so it’s easy to get out of needed. There is at least one thread here and one on MLS where Deep Cut has been debated… http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=6405 A few photos from the LSC thread… [url=

]

[/url] Deep Cut before the Wye was built - Looking away from end-of-track Right Click on photo & choose Open Link to enlarge [url=

]

[/url] Deep Cut after the Wye was built - Looking toward end-of-track & wye switch Right Click on photo & choose Open Link to enlarge - JR EDIT 5/9/09 to fix broken photo links still pointing to my old Eartlink space.

#17

AHHHHHH I was under the impression that it was indeed a tunnel or a cut that looped around somewhere else on the RR…not just the tail…