Large Scale Central

A Total Beginner to battery power

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

Greetings one and all. I own a B&B with a train that runs around the ceiling and I’m just tired of the issues with track power. I’ve been considering going with battery power but I know nothing about converting locomotives. Furthermore, I have absolutely no soldering skills if that’s what’s required. I tried to replace the trucks on a caboose model where the existing wires are soldered on and all I did was melt a lot of plastic parts and eventually throw the poor caboose against the wall.

I also have an odd collection of locomotives. I have one of those “Stainz” circus trains, a Bachmann Annie set and a Bachmann 55 ton Shay plus an eggliner. Obviously not prototype.

Is there just some company that will DO this for me - that’s my style? Or does anyone near Sacramento wanna do some trade and actually sleep in an authentic caboose? This layout is at the Featherbed Railroad (http://www.featherbedrailroad.com).

#2

Well, you have Dave Goodson of NWRCS up near Seattle WA. Then there’s Don Sweet of NERCS in NH. Plus one of the advertisers on here http://rctrains.com/ can do it for you. And probably a few more I didn’t mention.

#3

Tony Barthel said:

Greetings one and all. I own a B&B with a train that runs around the ceiling and I’m just tired of the issues with track power. I’ve been considering going with battery power but I know nothing about converting locomotives.

Is there just some company that will DO this for me - that’s my style? Or does anyone near Sacramento wanna do some trade and actually sleep in an authentic caboose? This layout is at the Featherbed Railroad (http://www.featherbedrailroad.com).

Tony,

Your B&B looks gorgeous, and if I was in CA I would be there in a jiffy to sample a caboose bedroom and to fix your trains!

But I’m not in CA (FL & MD) so all I can do is offer some comments.

Battery power is going to be almost as big a problem as track power. The batteries will need charging, which means you will have to stop and do something with the train. I imagine you’d prefer to have it unattended and maintenance free?

Soundtraxx used to offer a sound system with a battery pack that was charged from the track power and kept the sound working when track power was interrupted - by dirt, bad pickups, etc. I would think that something similar would solve your problems? You are probably running the trains at medium to low speed at about 12 volts. Put a 12V battery in parallel with the motor and its should charge all the time until the track power fades and then it will keep the engine powered until it hits a good spot.

I haven’t tried this and I hope someone can comment. (I have built a battery boxcar to drive a loco using a 12V gel battery. I didn’t try charging it from the track.) I think you will need lead gel cell batteries, as they will self-limit any overcharging - you can get them from an alarm company or battery shop.

#4

Tony,

I hate to say it, but if you dont want to worry about soldiering anything, then you need to have a professional do it. There are some options.

My recommendation is not to convert to battery if it is a display train. Like Pete said you will have to charge batteries alot. You can expect anywhere from 2-4 hours on a charge and that is very subjective.

I think the other option that Pete suggested might be good for you. The charged battery or a capacitor would smooth out the “rough” spots. You should also try to have a track cleaning car in the train about once a week. The car can be simply a pad (such as a masonite pad) suspended from the bottom of a car and rubs on the rails or a commerical car.

#5

Ditto what Jake said.

What problems did you have with track power? Maybe you were not prepared for the additional maintenance that running trains continuously entails?

Greg

#6

I just did an install today … G-Scale Graphics RailBoss control board, G-Scale Graphics Battery Conversion Module and a Phoenix P8 sound board. NO SOLDERING required for any of it. The RailBoss and BCM have screw terminals and the P8 has connectors with pigtail wiring ready to insert into the screw terminals.

In some cases you may want to “tin” the wires before inserting them into the screw terminals, but you can get away without doing it.

Just take your time … read the instructions … follow the wiring diagrams … and hook things up one at a time.

#7

I have to say I agree with Jake’s suggestion that you stick with track power for a continual running display, I have never seen one using battery power. I will say that of the several restaurants around here that run continual displays, all of them run LGB F-units, one runs an LGB Alco. Some will disagree but there is a reason for this…They just keep running. The "sliders even help keep the track clean. I have had other engines stall on dirty track but my big LGB’s just keep on going.

#8

Well, because the trains are in the dining room and lobby adjacent to the kitchen when we fry bacon in the kitchen it really gums up the tracks and the smaller locomotives don’t run at all (the Stainz is better than the stupid Annie). The Shay still runs but it “skips” or shudders.

I do have a track cleaning car and some 409 on the pad really does a very effective job, but I have to get up there, pair locomotives (because of the drag) and do all this stupid switching to get the locos to pull the track cleaning car.

I don’t mind changing batteries every morning and I don’t mind having someone do a great job of getting this whole thing set-up for me. Though you would think that someone would come up with a track-powered battery charger.

#9

Tony Barthel said:

Well, because the trains are in the dining room and lobby adjacent to the kitchen when we fry bacon in the kitchen it really gums up the tracks …

Funny, saw that in a movie…Bad guys greased the rails to stop the train from moving. :smiley:

#10

The problem with a track powered battery charger is that it will require clean track to keep the battery charged.
Changing batteries would be a pain if that means climbing up ladders etc.
Batteries would work if they have a big enough capacity. If it was me I would forget about putting batteries in a loco. Use one maybe two box cars stuffed full of the biggest battery packs the loco can pull. Use one trail car whilst the other is charging up.
They would plug into a suitable jack at the back of each loco.
No matter what you choose to do it will require getting up to the layout at least once a day.

#11

Tony Barthel said:

I do have a track cleaning car and some 409 on the pad really does a very effective job, but I have to get up there, pair locomotives (because of the drag) and do all this stupid switching to get the locos to pull the track cleaning car.

I don’t mind changing batteries every morning and I don’t mind having someone do a great job of getting this whole thing set-up for me. Though you would think that someone would come up with a track-powered battery charger.

Tony,

Maybe the track plan needs a rethink - perhaps a dedicated siding with a track-cleaning train all ready to go and all you do is flip a switch and it takes off and cleans the track for you once a day. The K.I.S.S. rule?

Tony’s suggestion that you run with a couple of battery cars is a good one. I built a simple battery car once for a gent who wanted something to run at a moments notice without cleaning track. LGB locos have a plug in the rear (intended to feed power to coach lighting) which can be used in reverse to power the loco.

A few 12-14V r/c battery packs in the coaches or box cars should enable the train to run all day.

No reason why you can’t charge them overnight from the track. Set it up so you stop the train, turn on track power, and an LED lights up to show you are charging. If it doesn’t light up, move the train to a clean spot!

You shouldn’t have to clean the layout more than once a month. And the charging cycle could be automatic - when track power is detected, the train stops and the batteries charge.

#12

Just a comment about track cleaning … Dirty track is only part of the problem. You also have dirty wheels that need periodic cleaning, and then there is that maze of cheap contacts (bushings, rubbing metal, skates,etc); they all seem to fail,many sooner than later. The best batttery power conversion will bypass all of that junk and you end up with a hard-wred connection directly from the controller to the motor. You will never see a stutter step again !

As to charging battteries; just plug in a charging jack overnight. No different than your laptop or cell phone.

And why do we get triple spacing between paragraphs in this new forum? It isn’t that way in the edit box.

#13

Del Tapparo said:

The best batttery power conversion will bypass all of that junk and you end up with a hard-wred connection directly from the controller to the motor. You will never see a stutter step again !

Amen to that.

And why do we get triple spacing between paragraphs in this new forum? It isn’t that way in the edit box.

It acts like HTML code. One return at the end of a sentance gives you paragraph spacing. Two retuns gives you double spacing. You are correct, the editor does not show it the way it will display in the forum.

Just takes a little getting used to.

#14

The Fryer in the RR room really does give an advantage point to battery power unless the tracks get so slippery the driving wheels start spining and going no where.

I recently did a “battery car” installaion using Del’s wonderful products.

(http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg412/DrGrab/DSC05969_zps23c4165c.jpg)

It was an electronic “first” for me. You can see the charging jack in the open door of the box car. It powers the LGB steamer very nicely and runs for about 4 hours on a charge.

I hope this adds a little to this interesting discussion.

Tom

#15

Pete and Jake gave excellent advice. Your best way of cleaning track is to RUN those trains; don’t leave them idle, tho’ in Large Scale not running your trains isn’t the HUGE problem it can be in, say, HO scale. Clean you track and coat it with graphite from an artist’s supply - works great to eliminate arcing and makes dust - the biggest culprit - S L I D E - off yr track. Others have coated their track wit Wahl Hair Clipper Oil - I’ve never tried it, but I have used 3 in one oil and it worked well. Keep it thin or y’ll lose traction, tho. Del’s post interesting to me, Mark’s advice very good. I store my trains in a room directly off our kitchen, and my darling Irish wife , perfect in so many ways, unfortunately loves her fried bacon. But we have a rule that the door must be closed when we’re cooking, and that has worked extremely well for 7-8 years now. Zero grease or crud on the trains or track. But you DO have a problem! Tony’s is the voice of wisdom and experience. Agreeing with Pete about how little cleaning should be required, ‘tho’ next to a kitchen, the way greasy buildup occurs, I wouldn’t be surprised if your problem is bigger than most. Doc, as always, I love your photos.

Good question, Tony B; good thread guys. Thanks to all. I’ve copied some of your advice to a notepad file on this stuff that I keep here…

#16

Instead of having grease get on open track, have a ‘tunnel’ for the train in the grease area, like a curtain to limit the grease.

And have the first trailing car have power pickups to assist the engine.

And remember that many engines with power ports on the rear have polyfuses to limit the current which need removal if sending power to the engine via battery or extra trailing car pickups.

#17

These are some great ideas one and all. Unfortunately we have an “open” kitchen layout so guests can see us making their breakfast and reassuring them that things are super tidy. However, that means that the trains in the dining room get the smoke from the kitchen.

I’m going to try the graphite idea - arcing is really the problem I’ve been having.

Also, I took all the track down last week in preparation for painting the dining room and found it was just black with grease yet the boards underneath were nice and clean. Something in the brass just loves greasy dirt it seems - I’m more convinced that battery power is the way to go just because of the direct connection with the electric drive motors.

#18

Tony Barthel said:

…Also, I took all the track down last week in preparation for painting the dining room and found it was just black with grease yet the boards underneath were nice and clean. Something in the brass just loves greasy dirt it seems…

Are you running plastic wheels on your rolling stock? This sounds more like wheel wear from plastic…This will cause conductivity issues. All wheels should be metal for low maintenance. Stainless steel track may also assist for a permanent layout but it isn’t cheap!

#19

Mark V said:

All wheels should be metal for low maintenance. Stainless steel track may also assist for a permanent layout but it isn’t cheap!

Stainless track with tight curves on a layout that runs constantly will wear the flanges off locos and cars in short order. Brass is softer and causes less wear but both the track and the flanges will wear over time.

Nothing against SS track, I use it; just not a great idea for a small loop.

#20

Did you happen to check the wheels on your cars, Tony? Mark might have a point.

If battery is your way then I can say welcome to the club.

You will definately have to figure out how you will be able to charge your batteries and a way to switch out the batteries when they run out.

Hmmm, I think a place where you can get up to the track and then use battery cars. then you can switch out the car when the battery dies and insert a new one. Then charge the ran down car while the other is running. Will be a little more work, but It can work.