Large Scale Central

A question for the operation gurus

Operations
#1

After several years of neglect I plan to do some updates as well as additional construction on my layout come spring. One thing I’m considering is a track configuration change at what will most likely be the busiest location on the line, the mine at Rockhill. Shown as it exists in the photo below, the three sidings to the right service the coal loading facility (still under construction) and the two at the left are to allow temporary storage of loads or empties during switching plus the second track from the left will also be used for boney loading. Note that the lead to this area comes off the main which will mean the main will be blocked frequently during switching operations. Of course as long as the passing siding is kept clear any through train could use it instead of the main but where’s the fun in that ?

I don’t remember exactly what evil thoughts I had at the time about this location as it was built a half dozen years ago but my current thoughts are to remove the lead switch from the main and install it on the passing siding and put a diamond approximately where the lead switch is currently located. While the main would still be blocked at times during switching operations it could be cleared fairly quickly for through trains. It would also give me the opportunity to build a diamond, one bit of track work I have never done.

As an FYI all switching will be done by road crews using the road engine. A typical scenario will be an arriving train of empties which will be swapped for an equal number of loads, ideally with the empties being placed under the loader. One last little kicker, the empty train will always be Northbound (coming towards you in the photos) so the lead is a facing point switch. I would be interested in any comments as to whether this in reality makes things easier or more difficult for the road crew or if its just a wash. I will most likely do it any way As I think it will just looks cooler !

#2

Gary - Good to see you getting back into the layout. I can’t help you on the operations question. Just thinking about switching that mine makes my head hurt :slight_smile:

#3

It’s hard to tell from the perspective of the picture, but moving the switch to the passing siding looks to me like it would be cutting the siding in half. That in itself would limit the ability of the train crew to use it to make up or break down a train depending on the amount of cars to be switched.

What’s the length of the passing siding now and what would the approximate length of your average train be? What would be the lengths on either side of the switch once it’s in place?
With a fairly long train and in order to clear the main, you might have to park your train over that switch making it useless.

#4

I would move the switch on the main back 3 or 4 feet to lenghthen the approach to the yard.
Ralph

#5

Hey Gary,

I understand your desire to build a diamond, but I’d do it some place else other than this busy mine. I’d also follow Ralph’s advice and move the switch back 3 or 4 feet. Iwas looking to swap some turnouts around and make the main on the far left with the passing siding being the yard lead and maybe running parallel to the main for some additional footage.

You probably also need a switcher crew assigned for a major industry such as this, a pcoket track for them to escape to while the mainline train works the area or some way of creating a gravity flow of cars passed the loader.

#6

OK, some good points have been made and I think you may have talked me out of it at least for the time being. I have till spring to reconsider anyway. Unfortunately I currently have no other suitable location for a diamond unless I can work on in at the other end of the line.

The goal wasn’t to make it easier but to make it more difficult, most of the other industrial and switching locations are pretty straight forward and don’t provide much of a challenge except for the dual gauge section and it may be some time before I have an operational standard gauge locomotive.

Swapping turnouts around is easy for you sectional track guys, it gets to be more problematic for hand laid stuff, more like starting over. Also since there is not yet a lot of infrastructure in place it’s difficult to tell but the primary reason for not making the incoming lead longer is it will impinge on the area currently reserved for a town site. The loader will in fact be a selectively compressed coal cleaning plant that will accommodate six cars under the loading bays without requiring them to be moved once in place. I was going to post a photo but don’t have one on line currently.

Also bear in mind that 99% of the time I will be the solo operator and in that mode will mostly run locals while trying to keep out of the way of a mainline train that will traverse the line with loops at both ends, mimicking a mine turn with out actually changing cars.

Thanks for your comments !

#7

That looks challenging! I really like Ralph’s idea of moving that switch.

For an extra challenge, park a car on that passing siding and set up an LCL platform.

As for the diamond, why not put in a length of standard gauge track that crosses the narrow gauge? :wink:

#8

Bruce said , "As for the diamond, why not put in a length of standard gauge track that crosses the narrow gauge? "

There you go Gary. That’s a heck of an idea. You could even have a dual gauge interchange track.

#9

Gary,

I too think that a diamond would look good there. If you merely extended the siding track farther as a stub and made the existing switch part of a crossover by adding another switch you could provide an adequate switch lead and maintain the passing siding without moving anything else. Too, by extending the switch lead a bit more you could locate another industry at its end for additional switching.

I think the problem of temporarily blocking the main line during switching would be a plus especially on the occasion of having a second operator. Also a great excuse for a signal light that could be manually activated to warn approaching trains of the obstruction. If you regularly had multiple operators this could be a real bottleneck but for a mostly solo or twosome operation I think it’d be great.

The Western Pacific had a 90 degree crossing over its mainline into Oakland, Calif. where it entered 3rd Street that served an industry. There were two gates that normally blocked the siding and its approach that would be swung out across the main by the brakeman whenever the siding was to be switched. Most interesting feature to model that I’ve never seen on a model railroad.

#10

Ric, a dual gauge interchange is already partially done further down the line, the end of the third rail can just be seen on the main at the very top of both photos so another standard gauge incursion would be hard to justify. For the time being I’m going to let sleeping dogs alone. Once I get the line closer to completion it will be easier to see what changes need to be made.

#11

I think the big question is length of train. Passing track doesn’t look that long ( I believe most ftr cars are abot 18" long so even a 6 car train will require 9+’ of track) so if the northbound empty train arrives with too many cars to fit in the Pass to runaround to spot at the mine the runaround move will require 2 moves thus adding to your stage of difficulty - that will add another challenge to the crew. How many cars will fit on the mine tracks? I wouldn’t add a diamond there either. Location has prospect of becoming an interesting switching situation.

#12

Gary,

Looking at the picture again, I picked up on the dual gauge in the top of the picture. I guess you could peel the larger guage track off over the siding, to the left in the picture, with a diamond as part of the interchange. Thoughts never creat permanent mistakes. :wink: Usually. Well, maybe.

#13

Fred, a six car train will be the norm on the line and most passing sidings will hold a six car freight + caboose. This might be less in the case of a train powered by a mallet with a long caboose but a standard coal train will fit without fouling switches. The basic layout, included most of what is currently down, started in 1997 and though curve radius and other things have gotten larger as the line progressed, I still need to deal with some old infrastructure. I don’t consider starting over at my age a viable option. Trains were planned from the beginning to be short due to the grades involved. Most of the mail line from start to finish is on a 4% average grade. (hey, it is narrow gauge) This in itself makes switching some locations rather interesting. Working brakes would be a nice feature in my case !

#14
Gary Buchanan said:
OK, some good points have been made and I think you may have talked me out of it at least for the time being. I have till spring to reconsider anyway. Unfortunately I currently have no other suitable location for a diamond unless I can work on in at the other end of the line.

Swapping turnouts around is easy for you sectional track guys, it gets to be more problematic for hand laid stuff, more like starting over. Also since there is not yet a lot of infrastructure in place it’s difficult to tell but the primary reason for not making the incoming lead longer is it will impinge on the area currently reserved for a town site. The loader will in fact be a selectively compressed coal cleaning plant that will accommodate six cars under the loading bays without requiring them to be moved once in place. I was going to post a photo but don’t have one on line currently.

Thanks for your comments !
Gary,

You can have your cake and eat it, too (I never have figured that phrase out, but it seems to apply, here :slight_smile: ). Have you thought of street running?

#15

Gary

I agree with Richard

Crossing the main with a crossing might not provide the operation you desire.

Instead you might consider movind the turnout into the mine area to the mid or far end of the main track near the switch to the passing siding.

Rather then just a switch consider a crossover and extend the mine entry track further past this switch. This provides a switching lead for the mine that will not foul the main line and also potentially another switching location (such as a team track) at the end of the switching lead.

Yes it does impact the town area but you could make the track look older and provide the appearance of a larger town. Or you could remove the passing siding to provide more town area. on the other side of the track.

Stan Ames

#16

Steve, while it won’t run down the middle of the street the main does parallel the main through town so it will be very close to street running

#17

I vote fer moving the switch and avoiding the diamond. As for leaving a car just to be an obstacle, the EBT did run a Miners accomodation car on occasion that they left in Robertsdale during the day didn’t they?

#18

Yes and I will keep that in mind for the future as adding one more issue to the bottleneck ! It will also give the crew of the passenger train something useful to do !