Large Scale Central

A kadee education

General Discussion
#1

OK so I am starting my collection of modern equipment. I have the gp-9 which came with a set of kadee couplers. I also have the Aristo flat car with Aristo couplers. I want to standardize everything from the get go. I don’t plan on having a ton of modern 1:29 stuff so I would like tomup grade it as I buy it or make it.

So some questions about couplers. What is the standard height? If I buy a kadee gauge that is recommended by many is this an industry standard that will allow me to hook up to others stuff? Which kadee to buy? I Am assuming I will want to body mount them so what box do I need typically? And what about offset? I went to kadee’s site and got more confused than helped.

#2

Devon, if all of the couplers are at the same height then things work better. The KaDee gauge is the best tool for this. But, standard? Not as much we might hope. Most copulers on most equipment do come out close to what the KaDee gauge is set to.

Body mounts, some one on here would be better to recommend what ones for what equipment, although KaDee does have conversion charts on their site. There aren’t that many body mount style of KaDees. Now for what one, Gauge 1 (smaller) or G gauge (larger), that is a personal choice. The gauge 1s look more to scale, but the G gauge ones are more forgiving of track…irregularities.

#3

Devon,

I’ve been wondering the same question as I currently have an assortment of different knuckle couplers mounted at the lower height, and want to convert to Kadees (or even Burl’s 1/29 couplers). I don’t know if this helps, but this is my plan. I’m planning on establishing a standard height of 34.5" above the rail for 1/29. I may end up making my own height gauge. I do recall reading once that the Kadee gauge is set for the correct height for 1/32. The other thing to be aware about is the difference between #1 couplers, and the larger couplers.

Here’s a link to Burl’s couplers that he says work well with Kadee’s. http://burlrice.com/_LS_Coupler/

Also check out Greg’s page on Kadees and mounting. Lots of good info. http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=316&Itemid=349

#4

I feel your pain, Devon. I’ve been there! I have been converting ALL my locos and cars to Kadee No. 1 body mounted couplers. I use almost (ALMOST) exclusively 820 and 920, the only difference being their color.

I use the Kadee gauge, but added some washers between the coupler and the base to raise the coupler about 1/4 inch. Then regardless of scale, my couplers are at the same height. They are much more relia le connecting to other Kadees, but will mate with other couplers when the stars correctly align .

I don’t truck mount the couplers because over time those tongues sag (I suppose is silly to add unevenly). Thus, today they couple, in a couple of summers the may fail, slip off each other, or even not match up.

The fact that Kadees are relatively unforgiving of bad track should be viewed as merely the way to reliable operation, IMHO.

#5

Checking out Greg’s info raises a question. I assumed body mount… But on my future layout I will have some 8-9 foot diameter curves. It’s the space I have … Can’t change that. Should I think truck mount to handle those curves or will body mounts make it.

#6

Greg’s site was great (as usual) and pretty much answered my questions. He states with 40-50 foot cars will handle 8 foot curves with body mounts. That sounds about perfect. The 906 combination of coupler and draft gear box sounds about for this job.

The 1906 is the #1 version, right?

#7

Devon Sinsley said:

Greg’s site was great (as usual) and pretty much answered my questions. He states with 40-50 foot cars will handle 8 foot curves with body mounts. That sounds about perfect. The 906 combination of coupler and draft gear box sounds about for this job.

The 1906 is the #1 version, right?

Yes. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#8

Devon, I would buy and use the KaDee gauge, that way you know your stuff will couple with other peoples stuff (in theory) when you go visiting other folks railroads.

#9

When changing out the plastic wheels for metal wheels I find the diameter is different thus the car height changes therefore requiring a coupler height adjustment for knuckle type couplers. The kadee gusge is very handy for this and I marked mine for hook and loop settings as well.

#10

One thing to consider… If you are planning any type of operations, you might really want to consider body mounting the couplers… Truck mounted couplers have all the force being placed on the trucks and wheels when being pushed back, therefore creating a more conducive atmosphere for derails…

#11

well thanks for the advice and experience. Body mounting sounds the way to go. I like that route anyway just looks better. What about the difference between the #1 and g sscale? Do they interconnect and play nice? If not will likely choose what the club uses mostly so I can play with others.

#12

I prefer the 1906’s. There’s a tad bigger then the 820’s that the IPP&W uses up at Fred’s and a tad smaller then the Accucraft, Aristo, and USA couplers that some people use, but they connect with either one without uncoupling. The 820’s are a bit too small for the larger couplers mentioned and slip through the couplers when a load comes off them. The 1906’s a good compromise.

#13

I have copuled gauge 1 and G gauge KaDees together. On short trains they work together fine. I suspect that on larger trains they would uncouple, like Ken said. My LGB Forney came with the gauge 1 Kadee installed, and I ran her with a short train for a few hours, without it uncoupling from the G gauge truck mounted coupler on the car behind her.

#14

As soon as the “NEW” 1906’s came out, I started using them. They have hidden knuckle springs, and look better. I still have most of the two fleets with 820/920’s, and won’t replace them except when one breaks, or causes trouble. They all “Play” together very well.

I understand the 1906’s now come in rust colour under the 1906B number. They all use the same draft gear box. (black and Rust)

A year or so ago (Maybe earlier) Kadee started shipping couplers, “G” and “#1” with plastic threading screws, instead of their previous nuts and bolts. I like the nuts and bolts better, and have a great supply of them, and longer ones that I use in some cases. When installing on plastic, I seldom use any nuts. I just drill the holes with a drill in a pin vice, just the correct size, that the screws (Bolts) self tap , and don’t need nuts.

Some cars need to have a bit of cutting, in order to get the couplers at the correct height. If done well, the car will look great. All shims I need are cut from sheet Styrene.Most plastic cars are made from Styrene, so they can be mounted on the car with lacquer thinner. If the Styrene is painted, it does help to scrape the paint clear.

DO NOT glue the couple draft gear boxes to the car, or glue the draft gear boxes together. If you do, and ever need to replace the coupler; it will cause difficulty doing what would be a simple replacement.

I would NEVER recommend using offset couplers. First; they are not prototypical, and second; they tend to look like heck. Thirdly; they tend to want to bend slightly under a heavy load, putting pressure on the draft gear, and mounting arrangement.

I have seen many many so called experts going out of their way to find the hardest way to body mount Kadee couplers, and always stare in wonderment, asking myself WHY…I guess they get pleasure from it, or something…!!

I don’t consider myself any sort of expert, but I have converted way more than 1500 cars of just about every make (Not European or brass models), using primarily 820’s/920’s/1906’s and 830’s/906’s. Very seldom ever needing any other style. Some were a challenge, I’ll admit…!! And I’ve see first hand, other peoples’ trials; using everything from little bits of Balsa wood, to scraps of paper as shims. Some of them were converted by people that claimed that converting to body mounts wouldn’t work for them. I wonder why…??..!

I do conversions for others, and have never had a complaint, but tomorrow is another day. A fellow dropped off 60 cars to be converted to 906’s a month or so ago. That is one of my Winter projects, to keep me out of trouble. !!! (I had already done 40 or more for him earlier…)

#15

Devon,

All of the above said, and in general I concur, I recommend checking the Kadee gauge for height. I have recently purchase both the #1 and ‘G’ gauges, and both were out of spec. In both cases mine are about .030" low, based on the dimensions published in their catalog on pages 41 and 47 of their current catalog available for download on their home page. That said it is only critical IF you anticipate inter-operations with other folks equipment. If your equipment is only going to run on ‘home road’ rails so long as all the couplers are at the same height all is good. BTW, the height of the Kadee ‘G’ gauge pretty much matches the height of the factory coupler on my Bachmann K27 and the Connie (after conversion to the body mount coupler on the tender). The Bachmann Spectrum couplers and Kadee ‘G’ couplers will play together.

As for specifically which mounting you should use, that may well depend on the specifics of the car you are mounting on. I am sure Kadee didn’t just come up with all these differing mounting arrangements to occupy time. Considering the cost of dies, engineering time, etc. I am sure the market was there initially to at least cover the initial investment, and additional sales were the gravy. Personally, buy only wish would be for Kadee to publish better dimensional data on their boxes so I can make a better determination of which box will fit better where.

Good luck Devon, I am on the same path you are. FWIW, I will most likely go with the ‘G’ couplers (830/930) primarily and other pockets where necessary.

#16

With the body-mounted #1 scale couplers and tight (8’ dia) curves, just be careful of the “S” curves leading into passing sidings. You should be fine on “typical” length cars (40’ in 1:29), but the longer cars may give some grief. My 1:20 passenger cars (20" long) will not negotiate my 5’ radius Aristo switch crossover. While that’s longer than a 50’ car in 1:29, it is something to keep in mind. The “rule of thumb” on “S” curves is to leave a straight section of track as long as your longest car, but that’s not always practical (or desirable) on passing sidings, as the longer the straight section between the curves, the farther apart your track centerlines become.

Know that you can “notch out” the sides of the coupler boxes just a bit to give your couplers just a little more side-to-side swing if you find you need it on longer cars. The “G scale” couplers have larger coupler boxes, thus have wider side-to-side play.

With regard to height; the Kadee standard for their #1 scale coupler is 1 1/6", which scales to 33" in 1:32. Their standard height for their “G scale” coupler is 1 1/8," which scales to 26" in G scale. You’re welcome to pick your own height based on your own personal preference. (Mine is 1 3/16"–24" in 1:20.3.) Know when you change the height for the Kadee couplers, you will likely not be able to use the magnetic uncoupling feature as the height of the pins change as well. You could try to bend them (it’s a lot easier in HO scale), but many just cut them off. Also, if you do change your height, you run the risk of not being able to couple reliably with others’ couplers set to different heights. If that’s not a concern, don’t sweat it.

Later,

K

#17

Gee, I have a PDF from KaDee years ago that does list the dimensions of the body mount gear boxes (draft gear boxes). They seam to have taken that PDF off of their site.

#18

Lastly – or rather, firstly – change the car’s wheels to the ones you want to use. The small difference in wheel diameter will cause you problems, unless you want to re-mount your body mounted couplers. Don’t ask me how I know this.

#19

George Schreyer’s pages, posted '97 - updated '09;

http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/kadee_tips.html

doug c

#20

I learned a tremendous amount from George, and am forever indebted to him for the knowledge and the times I have spent with him.

But I need to disagree in most cases with his coupler installations. It’s been found that using offset Kadees causes issues, and while George often changes from the large offset to the medium offset, I maintain that any offset on a locomotive is not good, and should only be done as an absolute last resort.

My friend Ted Doskaris has really investigated what it takes to install Kadees with zero offset, and in a manner which is not only operationally superior, but “good looking”.

I’d suggest going over Ted’s Kadee installations FIRST. There are about 40 articles on my web site written by Ted and most include mounting Kadee couplers. I will warn you that they are most (if not all) body mount.

http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=626&Itemid=803

Greg