Large Scale Central

A different kind of "decal" for stock and locomotives

General Discussion
#1

No offense to Stan Cedarleaf, but I don’t like slider decals. And no offense to the guys up in Canada because they do a fantastic job on press-apply lettering, really top notch, but at $84 a sheet it’s a little expensive. And on top of it, everything has to be measured out perfectly in advance and if something ends up looking too big or small or whatever, you’re stuck with it. And it takes three or four weeks to get them, and you have to use the right adobe illustrator format.

So I have been playing around with making my own decals, not really “decals” but I don’t know what else to call them, by printing them on my ink-jet printer. The trick is to get the background color to match the stock the decal will end up on, then all you see is the white. It’s easier with black of course, but matching colors isn’t all that tough. This way, it’s really cheap and if I don’t like the result I just adjust and print another, all in real time instead of guessing and waiting.

The pictures below represent my first take on it. I can tell right away that it makes more sense to mix up the color that’s going on the stock and to match the decal to the color FIRST, making the match BEFORE you do your painting and weathering. Then the weathering should bring everything together and the colors will appear to match perfectly. A better printer instead of the cheap piece of junk I use might help too.

The decals are applied with a generous backing and coating of white glue, pvc glue, and I think that should act basically as a medium and protect the ink from fading over time; it might not anyway really. A UV coat is possible if fading becomes and issue.

Like I said, this is my first effort, but I thought I’d put some pictures here and see what you all think and if you have any suggestions.

#2

I’ve done that in a pinch with stuff I didn’t want to spend money on decals, like log cars or small flatcars. I printed them out on self stick vinyl. They didn’t look as pretty as those, but I wasn’t looking for that. I just needed to renumber the cars.

Those look pretty good.

#3

I have made most of my decals in a similar manner to that which John describes. I also apply them with pva glue. They are quite long lasting here - no severe sunlight most of the time - but should they fade then it would be easy enough to print off more copies, provided they have been saved on your pc (or whatever you use) for future needs.

Sometimes they loose adhesion but that is no issue as they are easily re-affixed. Some of my cars have professionally made decals, which were kindly done for me by Shawmut Carshops in PA.

#4

Looks good, John. Well done!

#5

I’d think fading will be your biggest enemy. Very few ink jet inks are fadeproof.

Greg

#6

Greg Elmassian said:

I’d think fading will be your biggest enemy. Very few ink jet inks are fadeproof.

Greg

Would a UV dull coat help this?

#7

I must say, the results you’ve got there are very nice, but … The fading is a huge problem with ink jet, and, I must say, trying to save money with methods that are less than optimal is just staving off the inevitable - which is failure and messed up equipment with nasty-looking compromised signage.

My method is to test print the design on my ink jet, test position the size and get the look correct, then send it to Stan Cedarleaf to be printed. With the pre-testing you assure that the final product is correct and you get a premium look. Water slide decals are easy to use if you follow the rules to let them soak for enough time to loosen from the backing, then use tweezers to position them (A coating of gloss paint in the area to be have the decal will help to smoothly position it), and use Microsol to soften the decal when it is in place and help it to settle into the detail and texture. Then spritz of Dullcote and “Bob’s you Uncle”, as they say.

#8

A little bit of a drift but has anyone messed with color laser jet. They have come down in price to the point of being reasonable. I know they now make both clear and white waterslide paper for laser jet. Why not regular paper like John is doing? Would the product (both water slide and regular paper) be more UV resistant with the laser toner?

I know my inkjet suck on clear decal paper the ink is transparent. I used to be able to print them but the newer printers don’t use the same opaque color ink. I would love to get back to doing my own decals and have considered using the laser paper on my works color laser printer.

#9

WWW.texascraft.com sells all kinds of material-- paper and vinyl -clear or white- water slide or self stick and uv spray overcoat. Laser jet is best as it is pigment vs dye thus will not fade. BUT Epson Workforce printers have the option of using pigmented inks which do not fade (cheap refill or cartridges on Ebay. Canon and HP use dye based inks which fade very easily but more important are very water soluble and it is almost impossible to seal from moisture.

#10

Andrew Moore said:

My method is to test print the design on my ink jet, test position the size and get the look correct, then send it to Stan Cedarleaf to be printed. With the pre-testing you assure that the final product is correct and you get a premium look. Water slide decals are easy to use if you follow the rules to let them soak for enough time to loosen from the backing, then use tweezers to position them (A coating of gloss paint in the area to be have the decal will help to smoothly position it), and use Microsol to soften the decal when it is in place and help it to settle into the detail and texture. Then spritz of Dullcote and “Bob’s you Uncle”, as they say.

Same to everything (except for laser printer for testing instead of ink).

#11

Laser uses pigment (toner) where ink jet uses dye (ink). But both are susceptible to fading in direct sunlight. The ink is usually more so, but the latest line of HP inks are supposed to be UV resistant. At least that is the story they told me in training.

The Xerox colour toners have a high wax content, as do the Minolta colour toners. This can cause your clear coat to bead up on the colour toner a bit. I find that several really light coats, almost like an overspary, of clear coat works best.

#12

David Maynard said:

Laser uses pigment (toner) where ink jet uses dye (ink). But both are susceptible to fading in direct sunlight. The ink is usually more so, but the latest line of HP inks are supposed to be UV resistant. At least that is the story they told me in training.

The Xerox colour toners have a high wax content, as do the Minolta colour toners. This can cause your clear coat to bead up on the colour toner a bit. I find that several really light coats, almost like an overspary, of clear coat works best.

How come you’re so damn smart? What—you work on these for living or something? Ha ha ha!

#13

Or something…

#14

Not all inkjet inks use dyes. I have 3 different Epson WF-7620, P800, Photo r2880 and 2 Canons IFP6300, IPF6400 that all use pigmented inks. These are used to print professional photo pictures and canvas as they may displayed in galleries with much longer lifetime by years. There are also many suppliers that will provide pigmented inks in cartridges for a wide variety of home printers. A big advantage of the pigmented inks is they are vary tolerant of moisture similar to Laserjet.

#15

NOTE: DO NOT USE PIGMENTED INK SETS IN PRINTERS NOT DESIGNED FOR THEM!!

Printers designed for ink MAY permanently CLOG the print heads when using the pigmented dyes.

I personally know two cases, one each with an Epson and Cannon, where the heads clogged and could not be cleaned after using an aftermarket pigmented ink set, in printers not designed for the pigments.

#16

Yea, aftermarket ink was a headache that I had back when I worked on HP desktop machines. Oh, it was so much cheaper then buying genuine HP ink. Yea, and it was such a pain to try and get the things back up and running after the ink misbehaved.

#17

When Hershey closed their plant in a nearby town and moved to Mexico, I painted my two Hershey cars semi-flat black.

Too cheap to pay for decals, I used my Brother P-Touch labeler with a black ink on clear tape.

Tandcar

We have used these tapes all over the IPP&W Railway to label tracks and buildings.

They are UV resistant.

#18

And if you want a little color in your signs, you can use the Brother P-Touch with some painted backgrounds.

Here’s my signs on the left, and the original paper on the right.