Dave, my mistake in wording.Let’s try USA as an example. They manufacture a standard boxcar and I buy one of their models. From there, since I don’t have access to the prototype they used, I take all my scale measurements from their model of said prototype, to get exact specs, am I legal in my doings or illegal ?
Dave Marconi said:
Dave, my mistake in wording.Let’s try USA as an example. They manufacture a standard boxcar and I buy one of their models. From there, since I don’t have access to the prototype they used, I take all my scale measurements from their model of said prototype, to get exact specs, am I legal in my doings or illegal ?
What are you using to take the measurements?
Are you planning to also copy the errors (if there are any)?
Do you have pictures to correct those errors?
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Dave Marconi said:
Dave, my mistake in wording.Let’s try USA as an example. They manufacture a standard boxcar and I buy one of their models. From there, since I don’t have access to the prototype they used, I take all my scale measurements from their model of said prototype, to get exact specs, am I legal in my doings or illegal ?
What are you using to take the measurements?
Are you planning to also copy the errors (if there are any)?
Do you have pictures to correct those errors?
I thought the following was very clear:
I take all my scale measurements from their model of said prototype, to get exact specs
What you are talking about is almost like reverse engineering and that is illegal. When a company makes an item, there are usually some compromises made or in some cases deliberate errors so they can prove patent or copyright infringement.
Steve Weidner said:
What you are talking about is almost like reverse engineering and that is illegal. When a company makes an item, there are usually some compromises made or in some cases deliberate errors so they can prove patent or copyright infringement.
“Proper Enforcement” is the key to all written rules and regulations !
Perhaps I sold a 7lb bag of potatoes in Pennsylvania the other day which was against the written law?
Arrest me Shawn!
8 is afraid of 7 cause 7 ate 9
Dave Marconi said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Dave Marconi said:
Dave, my mistake in wording.Let’s try USA as an example. They manufacture a standard boxcar and I buy one of their models. From there, since I don’t have access to the prototype they used, I take all my scale measurements from their model of said prototype, to get exact specs, am I legal in my doings or illegal ?
What are you using to take the measurements?
Are you planning to also copy the errors (if there are any)?
Do you have pictures to correct those errors?
I thought the following was very clear:
I take all my scale measurements from their model of said prototype, to get exact specs
But your model will not have the exact same dimensions as the manufactured item, will it?
On those errors: from what one of my buddies tells me it happens that X, Y and Z mfgs take a drawing of an item from ABC publication and build the model according to that. And if there was an error in the drawing they may all copy that error, too.
Add the fact that there are differences from car to car i.e. you model all those differences of one specific car and it is no longer a copy of that USAT car but a replica of car # 12345.
Aside from all that, funny how one worries about “stuff” that is strictly hypothetical. That’s probably the kind of stuff the UP lawyers dreamed about when they figured there should be royalties from anything that has the UP imprint/logo etc.
PS Back to building my Piz Styro
Well, you could take an existing model (detail part, window, etc.) carefully measure it, draw it in a suitable drawing program, and print it, but how much time is that going to take? I don’t see that being a major issue. Most of us will take 5 minutes to order the bloomin’ part on-line from the manufacturer rather than take two evenings to draw the part. Heck, the part will probably arrive in the mail quicker than it would take most of us to “copy” all but the most basic parts.
If you’re going to copy a commercially-available box car down to the last nut/bolt/washer on the model, you’re still having to buy the trucks and couplers. Trust me–buying the commercial model–even taking the time to modify it to correct any known mistakes (or customize it however) is going to be quicker and a whole lot cheaper.
Later,
K
There is an interesting way for manufactures in model railroading to get ahead of the technology curve. As Dave was talking about, A Manuf. could make available 3D drawings of their product for sale. With the express written agreement that it is for personal use only. That keeps the money coming into the Manuf. and the modeler doesn’t have to deal with the moral dilemma. If there are nefarious intents on the customer, then the Man. has legal means to go after the customer.
Its better to embrace the technology and work on ways to use it to your advantage then stick your head in the sand and think it doesn’t effect you. Because it definitely will eventually.
When I started casting, one of the first things I asked my attorney was “will there be any trouble with making parts from a prototype railroad blueprints for model purposes” Short answer was “as long as I didn’t do anything with trademarks with out permission from the trademark owner” and “all the masters I use were my work”.
Here is three different 20.3 DRGW sideframes. All look the same untill you look real close and you’ll see some differences other than the journal lids.
Top is AMS middle is Hartford bottom is mine
(http://imageshack.us/a/img834/1778/dwpk.jpg)
Most of the masters I’ve made are from drawings from books and other sources.
Now that I have the printers, I can now draw up (or have it drawn up) a part, print it, make a RTV mold, cast it in epoxy and then take the epoxy master and make a vulcanized rubber mold to make metal castings. The reason for the epoxy master is the rubber molds I use vulcanizes at 300 degrees and the mold is under 2000 pounds of pressure for a little over a hour.
Rodney, very nice work.
Rodney, Why don’t you skip the in-between steps, and use a high temp RTV that will handle 500+ deg and cast in Pewter?
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/TRUCKS/Trucks04_zps30907f66.jpg)
That will give you a first generation “Masters” for the vulcanized mold.
Thanks Ric
Dave, Great idea, where do you get that?? I buy my resin/epoxy casting supplies locally (Smooth-on) and they don’t have the high temp stuff. The Britt metal I use cast best about 600+ degrees.
Rodney, I use Aero-Marine products out of San Diego. Wide range of commercial grade products. Great Co. to do business with.
BTW Like all RTVs it comes with about 10 month shelf life. The Mix ratio is 100:3 by WEIGHT. So a Gram scale is needed to accurately mix it up. Not hard to do. Sets up in about 10 hrs to de-mold. Great detail transfer.
http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/silicone-mold-making.htm#160
I heat the molds in the oven to about 450 deg before pouring to help keep down the thermal shock, and make better pours. I use a hard Brit metal with added Silver.
3D for me, if not this year - then next for sure. I’d be a techy follower!
I have a 3d printer and if you send the stl file I can tell you in 5 mins what it cost to print,
This part cost me under 3 dollars each for me to print them.