Large Scale Central

2008 - 10th consecutive year of no global warming

General Discussion
#61

I have no basis for any ad hominem attacks or generalizations of any scientists.

Former VP Al Gore is no scientist, but he does have established various corporations that accept “carbon offset” funds which may be a mandated penalty for using carbon based fuel, etc in the foreseeable future. His multi-million dollar 10,000 SF home which uses 20 times the national average kWh, claims he lives “carbon neutral” because he buys “carbon offsets” … from himself. There is one money trail.

Oil companies have a stranglehold on Congress (mostly under Democratic control for all but 4 of the past 50 years) which suppress the “clean coal” legislation, deny construction of nuclear power plants and generally use oil as a geopolitical weapon against Russia and China.

Carbon dioxide is NOT the source of global temperature changes, but temperature changes are affected by the amount of dihydrooxide in the atmosphere and solar activity (which decreased until 2008 and is now on the increase of a typical 11 year cycle).

#62

"Can someone tell me what large, multinational corporation, on the scale of Haliburton or Exxon, has a vested interest in provng that people cause global warming?

Gee Mike, that’s easy. The largest employeer in the United States. Government. If they can prove people cause global warming, then they can control more of our lives like the do in socialistic countries. Using your words, I guess you don’t get out much. :wink:

#63

Kevin you asked -

Have you ever read a paper from the scientific journals?

Yes, we can read out here in the vaste waste land. We also have inside plumbing.

You thought wrong. I agree that there is strong pressure on university scientists to have their research published. Doing research and making their findings known to the world is why they are employed. The taxpayers are paying their salary and need to see results. It alsoi adds to the prestige of the university and thereby helps to attract other experts. But there are many other scientists other than those employed in universities.

Kevin that’s your your tainted opinion, not fact.

What is this “fact” that you are talking about? You just made that up, didn’t you? There is a difference between a scientist claiming something and a newspapaer reporter claiming that a scientists claimed something.

Not much, any more. They just want the all mighty buck. How many hours are spent learning a subject compared to how many are spent learning to right the perfect grant application?

#64
Ric Golding said:
Kevin you asked -

Have you ever read a paper from the scientific journals?

Yes, we can read out here in the vaste waste land. We also have inside plumbing.


I don’t doubt that you can read and I don’t doubt that you have indoor plumbing. But you didn’t answer my question.

Scientific journals are not regular reading. They are tough going. I have to read the odd article (in Speech-Language Pathology) and I find it tiresome, dry, a downright tough slog to get through a lot of this stuff. I found it tough going way back at university when I studied, amongst other things, climatology. This is probably why the popular press often makes such a mess of reporting on science.

As to your other question about applying for grants, I was given no instruction at university.

A few years ago when I was working in the arctic (as a “Speechie”), I thought I would like to do a research study on Inuit child-raising practices to try to understand why so many children did so poorly at school and therefore live a life of relative poverty. I wasn’t asking for a grant, but I needed to have the study cleared by the ethics committee to make sure I wasn’t exploiting the people. After a week of reading up on how to write the application for permission to conduct the study, I gave up. I was told that applying for a grant is even more complex.

Does your hatred of scientists apply to all of them, or just the ones that reach conclusions that you don’t like?

#65
Ric Golding said:
"Can someone tell me what large, multinational corporation, on the scale of Haliburton or Exxon, has a vested interest in provng that people cause global warming?

Gee Mike, that’s easy. The largest employeer in the United States. Government. If they can prove people cause global warming, then they can control more of our lives like the do in socialistic countries. Using your words, I guess you don’t get out much. :wink:


The United States Government is not a “multinational corporation.” It’s a nation state. It’s also a republic–and in 2004, and nearly in 2000, it elected a guy who was opposed to the idea that global warming was a human problem. Who is the “they” you mention?

#66

Oh nooooooooo Mike :o
Not the dreaded assault on the use of the word “they”…again :slight_smile:
Ralph

#67

Kevin,

I’ll try to answer your question with simple words.

YES

“As to your other question about applying for grants, I was given no instruction at university.”

You must be as old as me, I think its required now. :wink:

I don’t hate scientists. I don’t trust them if they are funded by tax payers money. I’ve seen the greed cloud their minds.

Kevin, you are not going to change my mind. Probably best we talk about trains.

#68

Mike,

I didn’t say the United States Government, you did. Let’s call “Government” as all the layers that take the taxpayers money and redistributes it as they see fit, like grants. You know if it was really worthwhile a private corporation would fund it.

Let’s talk trains, we aren’t going to change each others opinoin

#69
Ric Golding said:
Kevin, you are not going to change my mind. Probably best we talk about trains.
Ric

I don’t mind that you hold a different opinion to mine. It would be a boring world if we all agreed.

What gets my goat is when people spread unsubstantiated BS such as your opening post.

#70

Kevin,

I say this with all sincerity. I posted what I heard on the news and thought was funny. I’m sorry you took offense to what I thought was funny. I have never been convinced about the Global Warming BS and the people with a political agenda will never convince me. I do not believe anythng humans do will ever change anything on this planet. You may feel different and worry yourself to death about it. You are welcome to that view. Enjoy.

#71

Deleted

#72
TonyWalsham said:
Ric Golding said:
Kevin,

SNIP
I do not believe anythng humans do will ever change anything on this planet. You may feel different and worry yourself to death about it. You are welcome to that view. Enjoy.


Ric.

Once again.

Who was it, if it wasn’t “Man”, that has progressively destroyed our forests, polluted the atmosphere, the rivers and our oceans, as well as cause the premature extinction of many species of flora and fauna?

After all, aren’t they also creations of the almighty?


And the hole in the ozone layer.

I admit I haven’t read anything on that subject for near 20 years but I seem to recall there were significant amounts of freons found in the hole. Freons are entirely man-made molecules.

#73

Man, last year we had record snow falls here in White Lake, MI. At about 6 feet, it was almost twice the normal amount. A damn cold year too! Our heating bill (gas use) was out of this world and we keep the heat so low you need a wool blanket around you so you don’t freeze in the house. This year is looking very similar to last year too.

Global warming… Ya right.

Jon.

#74
TonyWalsham said:
Who was it, if it wasn't "Man", that has progressively destroyed our forests, polluted the atmosphere, the rivers and our oceans, as well as cause the premature extinction of many species of flora and fauna?

After all, aren’t they also creations of the almighty?


I believe in the US, we still have more forest (trees, wooded areas) now than we did when the white man came to the continent and booted the red man out.

Jon.

#75

Deleted

#76
TonyWalsham said:
Who was it, if it wasn't "Man", that has progressively destroyed our forests, polluted the atmosphere, the rivers and our oceans,
and again
TonyWalsham said:
If you consume, you pollute one way or another.
Interesting quotes from somebody who PRODUCES a luxury item..... especially one that uses bits n bobs that require heavy metal smelting and plastics production. Going to go into the mud hut business instead to reduce YOUR carbon footprint?

Always remember when you point a finger at somebody else, three are pointing back at you. If you’re gonna talk the talk, then walk the walk… or it’s just BS (which releases methane which pollutes as well)

#77
Mik said:
TonyWalsham said:
Who was it, if it wasn't "Man", that has progressively destroyed our forests, polluted the atmosphere, the rivers and our oceans,
and again
TonyWalsham said:
If you consume, you pollute one way or another.
Interesting quotes from somebody who PRODUCES a luxury item..... especially one that uses bits n bobs that require heavy metal smelting and plastics production. Going to go into the mud hut business instead to reduce YOUR carbon footprint?

Always remember when you point a finger at somebody else, three are pointing back at you. If you’re gonna talk the talk, then walk the walk… or it’s just BS (which releases methane which pollutes as well)


I don’t see Tony’s statement as finger pointing.
We all contribute to pollution. Plain and simple.
Nature cleanses itself over time. When the point comes that man becomes overly detrimental to the well being of the planet, we will be cleaned from the face of the Earth.
The planet will survive long after man is gone.
Ralph

#78

It’s a common move, in discussions of global warming, to make a charge like Mik did–well if you believe in global warming, how come you drive a car/use electricity/string christmas lights etc, as if believing in man-made global warming meant you wanted to return to the stone age. Ralph, you made this charge to me earlier.

It’s kind of odd. Who makes the argument that because people cause global warming, we should give up all technology? Absolutely no one, that’s who. It’s a straw man.

It’s not such an unreasonable point. If human activity IS causing global temperatures to rise more quickly than they otherwise would, then are there things we can do to slow or stop the process? Is there a way to live “more lightly on the earth?” What’s wrong with that?

#79

Mike,

You said - “It’s not such an unreasonable point. If human activity IS causing global temperatures to rise more quickly than they otherwise would, then are there things we can do to slow or stop the process? Is there a way to live “more lightly on the earth?” What’s wrong with that?”

Nothing is wrong with that. It may even be commended, but as soon as someone says we need to raise the public’s costs, so a study can begin for ways to “live more lightly on the earth” the problem unfolds. Live life the way you want or feel you should. If you are doing it for mankind, I will be the first to say “Thank You”. Mandate that I should do the same or give you my tax dollars so you can study possible ideas of how to do it and I’ll put other words in front of the “You”. Use your money, not mine. Using my money or mandating how I should live is an arrogant, elitist attitude that should be challenged every step of the way. That’s the rub.

#80
Jon Foster said:
Man, last year we had record snow falls here in White Lake, MI. At about 6 feet, it was almost twice the normal amount. A damn cold year too! Our heating bill (gas use) was out of this world and we keep the heat so low you need a wool blanket around you so you don't freeze in the house. This year is looking very similar to last year too.

Global warming… Ya right.

Jon.


I am not a “global warming” rable rouser, nor do I dismiss it entirely as BS…but if you read the theory it is not simply a matter of climbing temps. The “science” say’s there will be more extremes on both ends of the spectrum…meaning colder colds, hotter hots, stronger snow storms, more powerful thunder storms, etc. Saying it is getting colder than normal in winter actually adds credance to the global warming bunch.

I also get a kick out of other comments saying man cannot change the environment…anybody else old enough to remember rivers catching fire?

I’m no tree hugger, and I have no use for the Greenpeace types but I don’t want to p*ss in my own home either. I see nothing wrong with trying to reduce pollutants, it’s just good stewardship. I do have an issue with both those who say we need to wear hemp and those who say screw-it, burn away. Like politics, balance is too much to ask for.