IF we don’t drink as much milk, and we supply the farmers with ““Beanoff””, then there would not be as much Global Warming… It all starts with the cows…
Ric Golding said:
Mike, Thanks for the chart. That’s certainly proof that those 1857 Chevrolets were the first example of how proper government intervention into a runaway capitalistic industry could really make a difference. Notice how the chart reflects that great effort of early politicians. Look at the improvements by 1860. Yes, if only we had kept slavery, beat our wives daily and heeded those early warnings, I’m sure we could still be walking 8 miles barefoot to work, up hill, both ways, and none of this global warming would have happened. And lets not forget about the reliability of Wikipedia and how they have been proven to not have an agenda. If its stated on a computer screen, it must be true.
??? No one is arguing for keeping slavery, or walking barefoot: just that it’s worth noticing that greenhouse gasses seem to be having an effect and thinking about what we might do about it. Or not–we could just deny the whole thing is happening or say “it’s natural,” like my example of the forest fire earlier. Forest fires occur naturally, so why should we try t put them out? Do you think a huge increase in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does something, or does it do nothing? The data in the graph is from: “This image shows the instrumental record of global average temperatures as compiled by the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia and the Hadley Centre of the UK Meteorological Office. Data set TaveGL2v was used. The most recent documentation for this data set is Jones, P.D. and Moberg, A. (2003) “Hemispheric and large-scale surface air temperature variations: An extensive revision and an update to 2001”. Journal of Climate, 16, 206-223.” There’s also this chart showing CO2 emissions since 1960–it’s taken from data published by the National Oceanographic and Space administration
(http://www.lscdata.com/users/lownote/_forumfiles/co2.jpg)
I just want to know–do you think increased CO2 emissions are just meaningless? That they do nothing? Or do you just think that this data is a lie–that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are NOT rising? If scientists find a plausible, provable, scientifically verifiable link between global CO2 levels and rising temperatures, what reaction would you suggest we have?
“Do you think a huge increase in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does something, or does it do nothing?”
I think the best policy would be to kill all the people that don’t agree with us and then there would be more for a lesser number of people. Where are all the good plagues when you need them?
“I just want to know–do you think increased CO2 emissions are just meaningless? That they do nothing? Or do you just think that this data is a lie–that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are NOT rising? If scientists find a plausible, provable, scientifically verifiable link between global CO2 levels and rising temperatures, what reaction would you suggest we have?”
Can we agree that scientist are a major cause of over population?
I would probably suggest prayer, it works for most everything else, for me. I know others may worship the all mighty dollar, the sun or a even Hollywood idol or some other type of idol. Your choice. I really don’t have time to worry about it.
I think one or two good volcanic eruptions and lightning created forest fires, wipe out all the man made created CO2. Our esteeemed scientists are just working on the wrong items. Most of them are just out to seek grant money and rape the taxpayers. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Either that or their egos are so big, they think they are actually going to save the World.
I just get a kick out of the scientists and politicians flapping their gums. They actually think people are listening.
Glaciers are receeding and dissappearing all over the world, thats been some of the clearest evidence to date something is going on…
But we got nothing to worry about until the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets begin melting, only then when Georgia becomes beachfront property, will people truely beleive its hit the fan, of course by then it could be too late to do anything, more than likely its already far too late as it takes decades for changes to take effect. All we can do is try to ride out the changes.
All I know is that I’m not planning on buying anything within 30’ elevation of the ocean, thats for darn sure! Water levels in the dams on the Colorado river are still way down, yearly snow pack in the Sierras is on a downward trend, I’ve replanted my front yard to Xerescape drought tolerant plants. Gonna be interesting to see just how dam hot it gets again this summer here.
We should NOT be having summers with the temps reaching above 110, yet we had them going on well over 5 years now…mere coincidence?
Personally what I find disturbing is that NO ONE is planning contingencies for what happens if it does truely hit the fan…including at least planning for the following possibilites:
Building large scale desalination plants along the coastlines to provide fresh water when the rivers dry up.
Building nuclear power plants, solar, geothermal and wind plants if for nothing else so when the middle east goes pyromania on themselves, we dont get left in the dark.
Planning for large scale indoor hydroponic farms if the plains go major dust bowl again.
What happens if the red tides and dead zones in the seas become more frequent? Can we aqua-farm on land or in controlled bays and inlets?
Maybe even planning for large scale indoor city/megastructures if the temps become so extreme living outdoors becomes unbearable. Were seeing a little of this already in Dubai.
Humans can survive even the most extreme climate changes but so far no ones thinking about the worst case scenario, so no one is even thinking about how to plan for it? Maybe nothing this extreme will happen but it would be nice to know someone is at least thinking about it besides just me.
We are very likely to have a major volcanic erruption long before the rising temperatures create serious problems.
Yellowstone has had a series of quakes, including one day recently with three 3.0 or higher tremors. If the Caldera at Yellowstone blows, everyone within hundreds of miles will be dead. The winter to follow would kill almost everyone else. There are larger active volcanos in the world.
Mike,
You didn’t address the question of what we did to cause the temperature between 1860 and 1940 to be below normal, by the same amount we are now above normal.
And quoting carbon dioxide levels from an active volcano is misleading, to say the least.
Mauna Lao is monitored for carbon dioxide because of the volcano. All your chart tells us is that Mauna Lao may be closer to a major erruption then it was 40 years ago.
Ralph
Victor,
We are living large here at 475.00 feet above sea level. 
Waiting patently for ocean front property. Do the people in Greenland agree with your summation that they should not return from the Ice Age?
If a glass is filled with ice and then filled with water and then allowed to melt, will it overflow? Wonder if I could get a grant to study that?
My problem is with the whole global warming INDUSTRY, and that IS what it has become. There are a a gazillion yahoos out there just slavering to SELL us stuff that nobody really wants and/or is currently economically unviable… but they intend to force down our throat anyway, either by government mandate, or from a more direct sponge job off grants and subsidies.
As for the “many scientists”, OF COURSE they will say it is a real and immanent threat, especially if it means the difference between a $100million research grant and actually having to TEACH for a living…
Then there is the Hollywood and politically correct crowd. Oh, it’s sexy and hip to be seen as “green”, but MOST of the stuff they are doing is totally meaningless… oh, yeah, just buy “carbon credits” off some third world country to offset your lavish lifestyle, instead of actually DOING anything that might involve some discomfort, or Goddess forbid, actually getting your hands dirty…
Actually, the greenies I really like the best are the ones predicting that the earth will reach critical population density in the next 50 years or so, but won’t set the example by removing THEMSELVES from the equation…
Get rid of all the snake oil salesmen, the hypocrites, and the doomsday hype, and maybe the credibility with the public will go up?
Ralph Berg said:
We are very likely to have a major volcanic erruption long before the rising temperatures create serious problems. Yellowstone has had a series of quakes, including one day recently with three 3.0 or higher tremors. If the Caldera at Yellowstone blows, everyone within hundreds of miles will be dead. The winter to follow would kill almost everyone else. There are larger active volcanos in the world.Mike,
You didn’t address the question of what we did to cause the temperature between 1860 and 1940 to be below normal, by the same amount we are now above normal.
And quoting carbon dioxide levels from an active volcano is misleading, to say the least.
Mauna Lao is monitored for carbon dioxide because of the volcano. All your chart tells us is that Mauna Lao may be closer to a major erruption then it was 40 years ago.
Ralph
Ralph, I keep saying this, but no one seems to hear it. It is very true that global temperatures fluctuate on their own, and would do so if there were no people on the planet. This would include both long term changes–“ice ages” and shorter changes within longer overall trends, like the dip in temperatures in the 1950s. I hav no idea what caused the dip between 1860 and 1940–I’m not a climatologist.
I do know that the late 19th century marks the real explosion of the industrial revolution, which leads to much much larger scale burning of coal and oil, and to massive population increases. That seems to correlate to a very sharp spike in temperatures. Could be purely a coincidence, though as you note carbon dioxide in the air does cause a rise in temperatures, as in the case of volcano. Do you really think there has NOT been a major increase in carbon dioxide emissions since 1900?
In 1960 there were 180 million people in the US and 74 million cars. In 2003 there were 291 million people and 196 million cars. The number of cars has more than doubled. That does not include other nations of the world.
I assume, because you mention the volcano, that you think this is meaningless?
Ric Golding said:No it won't, an you can't, but of course the ice in Grenland and antarctica isn't floating, it's sitting on land, and entering the water. Try filling the glass, then putting ice in your palm, and letting the water from the melting ice flow into the glass.
If a glass is filled with ice and then filled with water and then allowed to melt, will it overflow? Wonder if I could get a grant to study that?
Mike,
You said - “Try filling the glass, then putting ice in your palm, and letting the water from the melting ice flow into the glass.”
You really are starting to sound like a scientist. I’ve got a theory and now I’m going to come up with an example to prove I’m right. That’s like an educator writing a book and then forcing his class to buy it, so that will give credibility to his writings. You’ve never seen that have you?
I have no problem with theories, just use your money, not mine, to pay for them.
You said - “the ice in Grenland and antarctica isn’t floating, it’s sitting on land, and entering the water.”
So was the water higher and froze or was the water turned into percipitation and froze before it returned to the sea? What does it matter? Whatever “man” does will not change anything in this World. “Man” has never been in control and never will be. That’s hard to accept isn’t it?
mike omalley said:Ralph Berg said:
We are very likely to have a major volcanic erruption long before the rising temperatures create serious problems. Yellowstone has had a series of quakes, including one day recently with three 3.0 or higher tremors. If the Caldera at Yellowstone blows, everyone within hundreds of miles will be dead. The winter to follow would kill almost everyone else. There are larger active volcanos in the world.Mike,
You didn’t address the question of what we did to cause the temperature between 1860 and 1940 to be below normal, by the same amount we are now above normal.
And quoting carbon dioxide levels from an active volcano is misleading, to say the least.
Mauna Lao is monitored for carbon dioxide because of the volcano. All your chart tells us is that Mauna Lao may be closer to a major erruption then it was 40 years ago.
Ralph
Ralph, I keep saying this, but no one seems to hear it. It is very true that global temperatures fluctuate on their own, and would do so if there were no people on the planet. This would include both long term changes–“ice ages” and shorter changes within longer overall trends, like the dip in temperatures in the 1950s. I hav no idea what caused the dip between 1860 and 1940–I’m not a climatologist.I do know that the late 19th century marks the real explosion of the industrial revolution, which leads to much much larger scale burning of coal and oil, and to massive population increases. That seems to correlate to a very sharp spike in temperatures. Could be purely a coincidence, though as you note carbon dioxide in the air does cause a rise in temperatures, as in the case of volcano. Do you really think there has NOT been a major increase in carbon dioxide emissions since 1900?
In 1960 there were 180 million people in the US and 74 million cars. In 2003 there were 291 million people and 196 million cars. The number of cars has more than doubled. That does not include other nations of the world.
I assume, because you mention the volcano, that you think this is meaningless?
Meaningless?
Could be.
You are not a climatologist so you can not explain the below average temperatures for an 80 year period.
Yet you seem to have all the answers as to why we are now in a 70 year period of above average temperatures.
I never said carbon dioxide causes a rise in air temperatures. They monitor volcanos for carbon dioxide as it is an indicator of volcanic activity.
I don’t think we have conclusive evidence that we are the cause of global warming. At best, a case might be made that we contribute.
Since you believe otherwise, what are you doing about it? What creature comforts are you sacrificing? Have you stopped running your trains?
Turned off your air conditioning in the summer? Going to bed at nightfall? Parked your cars?
Ralph
Pretty interesting thread as we here in the UK enter the third consecutive week of night-time temps dropping below -12C in places.
I’m getting severely concerned about our native birdies.
tac
Ralph Berg said:
Yet you seem to have all the answers as to why we are now in a 70 year period of above average temperatures.I never said carbon dioxide causes a rise in air temperatures. They monitor volcanos for carbon dioxide as it is an indicator of volcanic activity.
I don’t think we have conclusive evidence that we are the cause of global warming. At best, a case might be made that we contribute.
Since you believe otherwise, what are you doing about it? What creature comforts are you sacrificing? Have you stopped running your trains?
Turned off your air conditioning in the summer? Going to bed at nightfall? Parked your cars?
Ralph
All the answers? i don’t have any answers, just some data and what seem to me to be reasonable conclusions
Since you believe otherwise, what are you doing about it?
LOTS! Compact flourescents, LED bulbs, not using plastic grocery bags any more, bunch of other little stuff
What creature comforts are you sacrificing?
Turned the heat way down to 60 during the day–I work bundled up like an eskimo. Went 90% vegetarian at home and switched to locally grown food wherever possible
Have you stopped running your trains?
No, but I am wondering if it would be feasible to charge a large battery or battery array with solar, and then run the track from that.
Turned off your air conditioning in the summer?
Yes–we only run it for one week. I just redid my office to move all the books to exterior walls, and added foam insulation in the cracks, and
Going to bed at nightfall?
no
Parked your cars?
yes–taking the metro/bus to work
Just little stuff. There really isn’t much else I can do. I’d like to get solar panels for the roof. It’s too expensive though
Terry, nobody argues that every place on earth will go up in temperature. England, for example, has much milder weather than Virginia even though it’s considerably farther north, closer to the pole. At least it did. If rising global temperatures shift ocean currents, its not clear to me what the effect on England would be. It might be colder temps in England.
It’s not 100% clear to me that people cause global warming. It’s just that there’s a very strong body of evidence that suggests it’s true.
mike omalley said:I can live with that part of your statement. And Kudo's to you for the steps you have taken to reduce your contribution to polution. Ralph
It's not 100% clear to me that people cause global warming.
Mike,
You said - “England, for example, has much milder weather than Virginia even though it’s considerably farther north, closer to the pole.”
I think that is because of the Gulf Stream.
Then you said - “Turned the heat way down to 60 during the day–I work bundled up like an eskimo. Went 90% vegetarian at home and switched to locally grown food wherever possible.”
Dude, no wonder you are always so irritable. Sneak out and get a hot dog with relish and mustard. I won’t tell and you’ll feel a lot better. You come to York, we’ll get you on our diet. Breakfast and Supper at the “Starlight Diner” and lunch at the Snack Bar, next to our spot. You can’t call it a meal if it doesn’t have meat. Most of our food is locally grown, also. Locally grown and fed on the grass and grain grown in the county. Locally slaughtered and locally cooked. We do import Rum, but that’s for medicinal use only.
“Went 90% vegetarian at home”
If I did that, I’d have to eat all my meals out. Is this one of those female ideas to make you a better person? You know, they do that in prison to keep the testostoron down. Lots of pasta and vegetables, little meat and the prisoners stay quieter. If she says she wants to try TOFU, run. Remember meat and meal both start with “me”.
“It’s not 100% clear to me that people cause global warming. It’s just that there’s a very strong body of evidence that suggests it’s true.”
Eat more beef and save the World from all that “Cow Gas”.
This last reply of yours really explains a lot. I bet you they told you it would be good for your health.
Yawn
“Yawn”
a sign of being lethargic
probably lack of protein
You don’t get out much, do you ric?