Bob/Del… I run the Li-ion in 100+ degree heat at 5000 feet altitude with hot sun beating on the battery cars and tenders. Temperature in the battery cars can get up to 165 degrees… I have had the REVOLUTION receivers overheat but never an Li-ion battery overheat and shut down…
I take the roof off to allow air to circulate and that solves the problem… I just installed fans in the car that causes the most problems… No results of the tests yet…
Just my findings…
Yes, but that is a “dry heat”. 
And I hadn’t even considered altitude … Probably just don’t worry about it. Batteries probably aren’t the limiting factor. Given the conditions of Arizona vs: Florida … I’ll take Arizona every time. New thread?
Stan,
Although I do not necessarily intend to have multiple battery packs (I usually only run a couple of hours at a time), your statement above
“…I just carry a new battery to the train, take off the coal load, oil bunker, battery car lid or roof of the unit and plug in the charged battery.”
is along the lines of how I was planning to operate. However, operation does not remove the heat issues I raised in the first place with Rick. Removing the roof of a battery car is OK when running for your own enjoyment, but when you are putting on a public display that is not what they want to see.
Thanks both Del and Stan, your responses have helped a lot, and I apologize for hijacking the thread, not intended.
Back to your originally posted topic…
Bob C.
" Given the conditions of Arizona vs: Florida … I’ll take Arizona every time."
Me, too, Del… Florida 100 degrees with 100% hum-a-didity ain’t no phun no how…
Bob, you sure didn’t hack the thread… It’s all part of the information process… And I understand your comments about the way each one of us run. our trains That’s why it may be “right for us” but not someone else…
Hello everyone,
Our Lithium-Ion cells temperature rating is between -4 to 122F, but that doesn’t mean the PCB is? If the PCB shut’s down due to extreme temperature changes, so does the pack. The PCB will usually reset itself within 45 seconds, (depending on manufacturer) but if you don’t have constant air flow getting to the battery pack it will just shut down again. That’s why I always under estimate a lithium batteries performance when installed into enclosed environments.
Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC
RCS America
When it comes to battery temps, I can only speak for my installations, which are tight-quarter tenders with virtually zero airflow, run in Colorado and DC. We don’t get as oppressively hot as the southern states, but it still gets warm enough. I’ve never had a pack shut down for temperature issues, nor have I ever removed a pack that was anything more than just a bit warm. I don’t know if it’s because I’m not drawing that much current through them (my locos typically draw less than 1 amp) or what. Take that for what it’s worth–one person’s experience.
If you’ve got the room to introduce some kind of airflow into the installation, by all means do so. It will keep everything happier. But I’d not sweat it if you can’t. In those cases, I’d just run without, and if it gives you fits, revisit.
Later,
K
Be interesting to hear experience of Liths from someone in the Far East operating with them.
They get quite extremes of weather. NOT the we in the UK should worry…sun? what sun.?
Rain? …we are Ark building this year. and other years and not much different.
Certainly this year, so far, has been a washout.
By far east I’m assuming you mean the east coast. I run both Li-on and NiMH batteries, but I’ve never actually run them on days where’s there’s extreme heat and humidity, say over 90 degrees, mainly because it’s just too uncomfortable for ME. I have run them on sunny days where it’s not too hot (in the 80’s) and haven’t had any problems although if I park an engine I will lift up the coal load on the tender so the heat doesn’t build up in the tender where all the electronics are and it’s probably similar to Kevin’s installation, (tight quarters, no airflow).
No… THE Far East…from the UK geo position…i.e India, China, Indonesia, Hong Kong and Japan…et al.
Ross Mansell said:I always thought I was the farthest east one can go. My day was just ruined ;)
No... THE Far East...from the UK geo position.......i.e India, China, Indonesia, Hong Kong and Japan.......et al.
Talking of the Far East. Hollywood managed to get the title of the Film KRAKATOA EAST OF JAVA incorrect.
It’s actually WEST of Java :) But then, accuracy has never been their forte.
I, like Ken, don’t run in the heat.
But having said that, the Nimh’s I use obviously don’t have shut down boards.
The Airwire boards however do shut down (on occasion) when too hot.
Ross Mansell said:I had nothing to do with the naming of that film Ross.:) :) ;)
Talking of the Far East. Hollywood managed to get the title of the Film KRAKATOA EAST OF JAVA incorrect. It's actually WEST of Java :):) But then, accuracy has never been their forte.
Well, all I can say about hot is a little story from a week or so ago running at the club. I had my Connie (still track powered) running with a Spectrum undec tank, my two bashed wheel cars and the Bachmann Spectrum crummy. The sun was so hot on the black tank car, when the 3 year old went to grab the tank car, he let go so fast he didn’t even derail the train. The Florida sun, even on bearable days, can be real strong. Thought you might enjoy the anecdote.
Bob C.
Ross Mansell said:Not to put too fine a point on it, but from where I live, Hong Kong, et. al is West. :P
No... THE Far East...from the UK geo position.......i.e India, China, Indonesia, Hong Kong and Japan.......et al.
Steve Featherkile said:True, but if you go East to get there, it's REALLY, REALLY FAR!Ross Mansell said:Not to put too fine a point on it, but from where I live, Hong Kong, et. al is West. :P
No... THE Far East...from the UK geo position.......i.e India, China, Indonesia, Hong Kong and Japan.......et al.
I run my RC car which has a massive amp draw (5000Mah dead in under 20 minutes) in 90-100 degree temps with high humidity. The motor easily gets to 140 degrees. I’m using LiPo and NiMH batteries, i know not LiIon but, when the batteries are dead I fast charge them immediatly to keep running. Safe? Probly not. Do I care? Nope, they haven’t failed and if they do they make more every day. Fun? Yessir!!!
For more battery info, I’m a firefighter, my radio, flashlight, cell phone and the thermal imager all have LiIon batteries. Three of those I carry on the outside of my gear into a structure fire. They don’t have any “special” case just plastic to make them spark resistant. I have melted the flashlight to almost nothing. The heat at the floor is usually 150 or higher with 100% humidity (steam) when the nozzle is open. The LiIon batteries have never failed nor have the NiMH or lead acid in other pieces of equipment.
What i’m getting at is the application for our trains is far less demanding, I wouldn’t worry alot about it.
Terry
Terry Burr said:
I run my RC car which has a massive amp draw (5000Mah dead in under 20 minutes) in 90-100 degree temps with high humidity. The motor easily gets to 140 degrees. I'm using LiPo and NiMH batteries, i know not LiIon but, when the batteries are dead I fast charge them immediatly to keep running. Safe? Probly not. Do I care? Nope, they haven't failed and if they do they make more every day. Fun? Yessir!!! For more battery info, I'm a firefighter, my radio, flashlight, cell phone and the thermal imager all have LiIon batteries. Three of those I carry on the outside of my gear into a structure fire. They don't have any "special" case just plastic to make them spark resistant. I have melted the flashlight to almost nothing. The heat at the floor is usually 150 or higher with 100% humidity (steam) when the nozzle is open. The LiIon batteries have never failed nor have the NiMH or lead acid in other pieces of equipment.What i’m getting at is the application for our trains is far less demanding, I wouldn’t worry alot about it.
Terry