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  • Topic: Donkey build

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    • December 14, 2020 7:54 PM EST
      • Maryland, USA
         
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      Donkey build

      I'm taking a little break from things V&T, and working up a design model for a steam donkey. It's based on plans in the book "The Steam Donkey Engine" by the late William Harris, depicting a typical American Hoist & Derrick 2-drum "yarder" (I think).

       

       

      I haven't connected this yet with an actual prototype, since I haven't found an AHD catalog having enough detail to tell which model it was. If you know of a link to a full catalog, I'd appreciate having it.

       

       

      I have a long way to go on this, mainly with piping and gobs of fasteners. 

       

      Cheers,

      ===:>Cliffy

       

       

       

       

    • December 14, 2020 8:11 PM EST
      • Marysville, Kansas
         
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      Cool, been working on drawing one up of my own.   Like the working CAD model.

    • December 14, 2020 8:18 PM EST
      • Waverly, Alabama
         
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      Looking forward to the birth of this donkey, Cliff. Great model animation by the way. 

      ____________________________________

       

    • December 14, 2020 9:09 PM EST
      • Roanoke, VA
         
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      Hi Cliff;

       

      There was a Scandinavian fellow over on the other (MLS) site who built several very nice working live steam donkeys and yarders.  I believe his last name was Loek.  Anyway, a search of the Live Steam forum may yield some good ideas for your own project.

       

      Best Wishes, David Meashey

    • December 14, 2020 9:22 PM EST
      • Maryland, USA
         
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      Glad you like it Chris, and I'll bet we'll both be printing donkeys soon.

       

      Thanks Dan, ha! But don't give Rooster ideas, he'll post a video of a live steamy donkey birth... 

      [edited to cross out the suggestion that I could predict anything Rooster would do] 

       

      David, you bet, Loek's creations are amazing, I've always enjoyed seeing his new creations. Truly stunning stuff. This donkey will be very tame in comparison, haha! 

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at December 14, 2020 9:39 PM EST
    • December 14, 2020 10:17 PM EST
      • Pleasanton, CA
         
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      Nifty beating whizzbang, Cliff. How many separately printed bits and pieces is it so far?

    • December 14, 2020 10:20 PM EST
      • Southern Oregon
         
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      Cliff,

      Nice work up.  With your attention to detail and skill it should be a superb model, to which scale are you going to build?  You might want to consider printing extra copies, there is probably a market for them at the right price point 

       

      Not trying to be picky but I know you like accuracy in your builds, so with that in mind. I think what you have there is a Hoisting Engine not a yarder and a small one at that.  As their name implies, AH&D built engines for the construction industry, their engines were for derricks, hoists, cranes, stiff leg derricks, drag lines, etc. Not for the logging woods. I’m not saying one was never used in the woods because there is a prototype for everything 

      Near as I can tell based on the 1914 AH&D catalog what you show is a; Double cylinder “American” Hoist with two friction drums and two winch heads.  I am not familiar with the particular type of Friction Clutch shown in your pictures but your design may well be from an earlier or later year model.

       

      If you want a Yarder, Loader, or Skidder, you should look at Clyde, Willamette, or even Lidgerwood manufacturing company’s catalogs.  There are reprint copies of all of these companies’ catalogs, including AH&D, available but just certain years.  If you need information on finding them just give me a shout.  

    • December 14, 2020 10:35 PM EST
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Do you need my address cliff? As I know this will be a museum quality piece in 1:24 I am certain I NEED it already.

      ____________________________________

       

       

       

    • December 15, 2020 2:30 PM EST
      • Maryland, USA
         
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      Jim Rowson said:

      Nifty beating whizzbang, Cliff. How many separately printed bits and pieces is it so far?

       

      Thanks Jim! It's currently at 85 unique parts and 165 total parts. But I'll do a lot of joining in the printing prep, so hopefully many fewer printed parts. 

       

       

    • December 15, 2020 3:25 PM EST
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      Rick Marty said:

      Cliff,

      Nice work up.  With your attention to detail and skill it should be a superb model, to which scale are you going to build?  You might want to consider printing extra copies, there is probably a market for them at the right price point 

       

      Not trying to be picky but I know you like accuracy in your builds, so with that in mind. I think what you have there is a Hoisting Engine not a yarder and a small one at that.  As their name implies, AH&D built engines for the construction industry, their engines were for derricks, hoists, cranes, stiff leg derricks, drag lines, etc. Not for the logging woods. I’m not saying one was never used in the woods because there is a prototype for everything 

      Near as I can tell based on the 1914 AH&D catalog what you show is a; Double cylinder “American” Hoist with two friction drums and two winch heads.  I am not familiar with the particular type of Friction Clutch shown in your pictures but your design may well be from an earlier or later year model.

       

      If you want a Yarder, Loader, or Skidder, you should look at Clyde, Willamette, or even Lidgerwood manufacturing company’s catalogs.  There are reprint copies of all of these companies’ catalogs, including AH&D, available but just certain years.  If you need information on finding them just give me a shout.  

       

      Rick, thanks for the helpful info! I've seen the AHD 1914 catalog for sale (repro), but only just saw it on Hathitrust. You're right, p16-17 sure look like this one! [LINK] . They also have an 1897 book of product photos (lots of "tower cranes"), like you say, all non-logging. But, if you don't tell, I won't. ;)

       

      Scaling up the the model, it's specs are:

        Drum: 16"dia x 25"w

        Boiler: 44"dia x 92"h

        Cylinder: 8" bore x 8" stroke

       

      So it looks to be based on a mix of the 20 & 30 hp units.

       

      I have a neat Willamette catalog reprint, and my hope is to make one of those some day (I have photos of a huge one on display in Arnold, CA).  

       

      For scale, I'm setting up the computer model for 1:1 (for proto checks), 1:8 (how it's drawn in the book), and all the G (1:20,3, 1:22, 1:24, 1:29, 1:32). For 1:20.3 and 1:24, I'd like to put in the brass rod, piping and fasteners, but it will take a long time to resize all that for each scale, so we'll see. Eventually I'd like to put out a very-few-part version for smaller scales on Shapeways. That way folks can choose the material, and I wouldn't have to mess with it.

       

      Thanks,

      Cliff  

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at December 15, 2020 3:33 PM EST
    • December 15, 2020 3:26 PM EST
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      Devon Sinsley said:

      Do you need my address cliff? As I know this will be a museum quality piece in 1:24 I am certain I NEED it already.

       

      Thanks Devon, haha! I'll keep ya posted, but you know I go slow.... :)

       

       

       

       

    • December 15, 2020 3:58 PM EST
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      The AHD "bridge builder's derrick car" is fun: [LINK]

       

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at December 17, 2020 1:21 AM EST
    • December 15, 2020 4:18 PM EST
      • Burke, Virginia
         
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      Well, Cliff, are you going to have it delivered to their works so they can do all the adjustments, or is this going directly to you? 

      ____________________________________

      Bruce

      http://jbrr.com/

       

    • December 15, 2020 5:41 PM EST
      • Fort Wayne, Indiana
         
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      Donkey

      Here’s mine

      Jason

       

    • December 15, 2020 5:54 PM EST
      • Hendersonville, North Carolina
         
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      What a great project. When all the files are finalized, I would be more than happy to acquire them to see if my son would be willing to print them for me. 

      Doc

    • December 15, 2020 6:09 PM EST
      • Curmudgeon at Large, Lynn Haven, FL
         
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      One of the advantages of working in a parametric modeling package at 1:1 is changing scale is easy. Just make a derived part at the desired scale. Of course that means every part has to be done and the assembly made, but so much easier than doing all that math for the calipers when building the parts.

      ____________________________________

      We don't stop playing with trains because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing with trains.....

       

    • December 15, 2020 6:31 PM EST
      • Southern Oregon
         
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      Cliff,

      I should have known you had a handle on it.

    • December 15, 2020 7:36 PM EST
      • Pleasanton, CA
         
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      I'd be interested in getting the files too, if you are up for it Cliff. Have a 3D printer in the family these days. Let me know what it would take...

       

      Cheers!

       

    • December 16, 2020 4:48 PM EST
      • Maryland, USA
         
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      Bob Cope said:

      One of the advantages of working in a parametric modeling package at 1:1 is changing scale is easy. Just make a derived part at the desired scale. Of course that means every part has to be done and the assembly made, but so much easier than doing all that math for the calipers when building the parts.

       

      Yes indeed, Bob! For my approach, I chose to have each of the various parts with the 7 (for now) scale factors, and pull them into an assembly (having those same 7 configurations) where each part is selected for its scale. It's complicated and time consuming, but I do that to intervene at the part level with differing parameters for stock parts involved (which change in the different scales), and also to re-make individual parts when needed. 

       

      The really fast approach is to model and assemble everything 1:1, and then apply one scale factor to the whole shootin' match. But, it's tougher then to "redrill" all the holes involved for, say, stock brass rod diameters. In short, it's a pick-your-poison decision up front. But no matter what, to your point, it's vastly easier then re-measuring / calculating for differing scales. 

       

      Cliff  

    • December 16, 2020 4:54 PM EST
      • Maryland, USA
         
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      Rick Marty said:

      Cliff,

      I should have known you had a handle on it.

       

      Not really, till you pointed me to that 1914 catalog Rick. I'd seen it available on Hathitrust, but only on a per-page basis, and I'd missed the chart on P16. So thanks for that, and helping me understand the difference between "my" model and a logging donkey; that hadn't occurred to me... and I hope we can all forget that little fact! 

       

      Thanks again!

       

      Cliff

       

           

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