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  • Topic: Hybrid Adhesives

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    • March 6, 2020 8:34 AM EST
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      Hybrid Adhesives

      DISCLAIMER:  I have no financial or personal interest in products discussed in this thread.  I do not wish to engage in arguments over which is better. Everyone can make their own informed decisions.

       

      As many know, I work in the sign industry as a fabricator.  We use lots of products that are generally not available to the public; or are a priced so high as to not be practical for modeling.  High Tech adhesives usually fall into this category.  I have been using several new structural adhesives from Loctite. One of them is available from Amazon and other sources for under $20 per package.

      Loctite HY 4070 is a clear, two part hybrid structural adhesive that is available in small .4 Oz. syringes.  4070 is a hybrid of cyanoacrylate (CA) and acrylic epoxy.  It has a very short fixture time and attains a structural bond in less than 15 minutes.  It is very versatile, I have successfully used it to bond acrylics, foamed PVC board and metal in any combination. I suspect it will also bond to styrene and wood, but have not tried that yet It is ideal for small detail or repair jobs with its small tip (about .5mm) and easy to handle syringe. It's gel consistency will fill gaps. I have used it to fill gaps up to 1.5mm.

       

      One drawback is the need to use mixing nozzles. They are not terribly expensive and easy to change; but if you put the syringe down for 4-6 minutes after use, you will need a new mixing nozzle to continue as it will have cured in the nozzle. Nozzles are also available in 5 packs on Amazon.

       

      My Loctite rep has warned me that some on-line sellers are delivering outdated product; or product nearing expiration. The source I have been using has consistently delivered fresh product with close to 1 year shelf life. I will share the Amazon seller in a PM if anyone needs it.  There are commercial sources as well, but may shy away from selling to individuals.  This IS NOT available at your local hardware or big box store.

       

      I've been using this for about 3 months now and it has not let me down.  I see lots of applications in the modeling world; especially in "production line" assembly where many of a model's parts are ready for assembly at the same time.

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    • March 6, 2020 8:51 AM EST
      • Easton , Massachusetts
         
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      How does it hold up to UV rays ?

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    • March 6, 2020 9:56 AM EST
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      Sean McGillicuddy said:

      How does it hold up to UV rays ?

      UPDATED REPLY - I don't really know.  Of all of the applications I have used it for, the adhesive ends up hidden by the substrate and not exposed to light.  I looked at the spec sheet and UV is not mentioned. I have used it as a quick dry filler in applications that get painted. It takes paint well and I would assume paint would protect it from UV as well.

       

      What do you have in mind where the adhesive would be exposed to UV?

       

      Spec sheet is here:

      https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/structural-adhesives/loctite_hy_4070.html

       

      This post was edited by Jon Radder at March 6, 2020 10:04 AM EST
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    • March 6, 2020 10:11 AM EST
      • Easton , Massachusetts
         
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      Oh .. maybe a building made with it and left to fend for it's self against mother nature ?

      It seams that UV is Mother natures kryptonite .. 

      I was just wondering ..

      ____________________________________

       My u-tube  My Vimeo

      The light in the tunnel might not be an engine , but a light in the caboose of my own train on my Roundy Round Rail Road !    My empire is complete...I think...

    • March 6, 2020 10:35 AM EST
      • People's Republic Of Maryland, USA
         
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      Thanks Jon. I'll be needing something like that to adhere acrylic and aluminum to HDU board. Have you tried anything like those combinations?

       

      We use methacrylate cements at work (Plexus, Hysol, Acralock), but they're really expensive too. Is the HY 4050 as good as those sorts of adhesives?

       

      [edit] For the 11ml, they supply a plunger thing you press in... by hand? But I think you need the gun for the 50ml, like this, right? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JMXTBW6

      I have one of those that came with a 50ml Acralock, maybe it'll fit the 4060 hy 50ml.

       

       

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at March 6, 2020 11:43 AM EST
    • March 6, 2020 4:53 PM EST
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      Cliff - Yes - The 11Ml is a syringe with plunger. Fits comfortably in your hand and dispense with thumb pressure.  You asked about HY 4050. I'm not sure if that was a typo and you meant 4070 or a different product. I'm not familiar with many of their other products. I've tried one other, 8030 I think, that came in 50Ml that required a gun. It was a 1:1 mix and my gun didn't have plungers for that ratio; so the rep gave me a gun :)

       

      I've not used the three cements you mention, so I can't give you an opinion. The spec sheet I linked above will allow you to compare. Other than big box store construction adhesives, I use SCI Grip Weldon 45 in 400ML cartridges. Mostly for large aluminum bonding jobs.

       

      I can do a test on HDU foam next week. I have an job for that application at work in a few weeks and this is good timing to choose an adhesive.  My gut feeling is that it will work. The spec sheet lists all the substrates it is compatible with and gives test results for bond strength for each.

       

      This post was edited by Jon Radder at March 6, 2020 5:04 PM EST
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    • March 6, 2020 5:03 PM EST
      • People's Republic Of Maryland, USA
         
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      Jon, yep, I meant 4070. 

       

      Thanks for the further info. SG 45 is a methacrylate, and it's pull tests for aluminum and acrylic are awesome! Like, 1 ton per square inch... I think that'll do! 

       

      But I'm really curious about what this hybrid adhesive does, on those substrates and on the HDU. I suspect that it will have a far greater strength than the HDU itself, i.e., leaving material behind before you lose the bond.

    • March 6, 2020 9:03 PM EST
      • Burke, Virginia
         
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      Jon, 

      That is VERY interesting!  Thanks for the info.  Is there any odor involved?  (I seem to have a problem with ordinary CA and always use odorless, even though I can’t smell the regular stuff either.).

      Any specific handling requirements or temperature restrictions?

       

      I just might have to give this a go.  Thanks again.

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      Bruce

      http://jbrr.com/

       

    • March 6, 2020 9:03 PM EST
      • Burke, Virginia
         
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      I don’t really need to post this twice.   It was barely worth the time to read it once.  (Or maybe I just hoped it was.)

      This post was edited by Bruce Chandler at March 6, 2020 9:06 PM EST
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      Bruce

      http://jbrr.com/

       

    • March 6, 2020 10:34 PM EST
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      I haven't noticed any odor, but I am using very small quantities. One little syringe lasts for 4 or 5 small jobs. The Weldon 45 I use in much larger applications and it has a strong odor and makes a lot of heat during cure.  By temperature restrictions, do you mean during application [I apply at cool room temperature] or in use after cure? In the latter case I've used it for component assembly on outdoor signs that have experienced wide temperature with our bright sun and freezing nights. So far it works great. The spec sheet has a temp chart.

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    • March 7, 2020 8:19 AM EST
      • People's Republic Of Maryland, USA
         
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      Seems like the guns and mixing tubes for 50ml 2-part products like this are interchangeable; Jon, what's your experience?

      That would allow for quite a variety of products, including the epoxy-CA hybrid, methacrylates (like WO45, Plexus, Hysol),  and several epoxies & urethanes. 

       

      Tubes

      Guns

    • March 7, 2020 8:30 AM EST
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      The gun body is the same for most products. The removable plunger controls the mix ratio.  So long as you have the correct plunger for the product; you can use the same gun.  For example, the 50ML Weldon 45 is a 4:1 mix ratio while the 50Ml Loctite 8030 uses a 1:1 mix ratio.  I needed a new gun for the Loctite because I didn't have the 1:1 plunger and couldn't find a plunger only for sale.

       

      The small guns are reasonable - under $25 I think. The big ones for 400Ml tubes are ratio specific and a few hundred dollars last I checked.

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