Help please I am still looking to fix some older Heavyweights and looking for some detail on how OVGRS solved the Heavyweight 3 axle truck tracking issue.

In December 2006 Fr Mills posted on LSC: Changes in Aristo Heavyweight Pass. Trucks…Kadee Couplers that he was toying with the idea of using the “Secondary bolster”, as the main bolster, and cutting off the old main bolster… the one in the curved slot. It is attached to the bottom of the car with three screws. It looks like, if you reverse it; you can use it as a bolster in the new hole drilled in the centre of the truck. I’ll have to drill new holes to mount the bolster on the bottom of the car.

In April 2008 Dougald posted on MLS: A summary of Heavyweight advice that OVGRS now have cars that have the bolster placed correctly on the cars and centred on the truck … we removed the original bolster and moved it to be centred fore and aft on teh truck … a new kingpin was fabricated and the truck reinstalled. I will try to get a picture on wednesday when I am next at the IPP&W shops.

Are these two descriptions of the same or a different mod? How was a new kingpin fabricated? Dimensions and/or pix would be ideal.

Many Thanks

mike

Hii Mike,

I made a similar improvement to an Aristo U25B about 15 years ago. I simply created a plastic pad to mount the motor block at the right height using a centered pedestal. I considered doing the same for the Aristo tri-axle passenger truck as well. Instead, however, I tried using LGB ball bearing wheels and they made all the difference. These can now reliably traverse LGB 16000 switches with no problems. Although they arent cheap, the car tracks well and as a bonus it rolls half way around the layout with a light push!

Fred Mills and Gord Bellamy worked on the Aristo-Craft heavy weights cars.

I will e-mail Fred and ask him to respond to this thread.

Here is a picture of Pat Brennan’s CPR Pacific hauling heavyweights through an S-curve and switch on the Fred’s railroad.

!|697x719

I gave up trying to get the Aristo 6 wheel trucks to perform dependably. Whoever designed them should be shot…before he designs anything else.

It may be because we use our equipment for more than just roundy-roundy, and in the course of our operations, the cars go through many switches and various changes in track work. I won’t go into details about what is basically very wrong with the design…if you have them, you should be able to see for yourself.

I just changed the cars over to B’mann passenger trucks and solved the problems. And yes, I know very well that the B’mann trucks are not the correct trucks for the cars…and yes I did try using the Aristo 4 wheeled passenger trucks, but they also gave troubles, for at least one of the same reasons the 6 wheeled trucks did. The same designer must have been involved.

Pat Brennan has problems with his cars too…

NO…it is not the fault of our trackwork.

Fred Mills

Thank you Paul a picture is always worth a thousand words.

Fr Fred, Very Many Thanks for your prompt intervention.

That would explain absolutely everything - including your running through a reverse S-bend with a switch in it. I spent much of last year trying to remove all the equivalent challenges over here. And I had thought it was just me that didn’t understand how the stock 6 wheel truck could ever work.

How did you mount the Bachmann trucks - using either of the existing Aristo pivot points? Or was a new kingpin fabricated?

Best wishes

mike

I modified one of the existing bolsters…and positioned it. I also strengthened the B’mann trucks with a rod at each end of the sideframes, joining them. I drilled a hole in the side frames, at each end, and inserted the rod using CA.

If you have a pair of LGB passenger trucks, they already have holes in them (These are on the inside of the side frames). I used the B’mann trucks because they were readily available. The LGB trucks are almost identical, and you can use them if you care to.

I used a wire coat hanger for the rod. Just cut the correct length and use it. You can use brass rod if you want to. If you are using the B’mann trucks, just drill the holes using a drill bit the same size as the rod you use, to give a snug fit. Wire coat hangers come in several thicknesses.

When drilling; drill from the inside, but don’t go right through.

When in doubt, you could always look here:

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/hw_tips.html

-Kevin.

…ok, that fixes the truck problem…what you do for couplers is your problem. We body mounted Kadee couplers, using the extra flex mounts.

Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD (Hons) said:

…ok, that fixes the truck problem…what you do for couplers is your problem. We body mounted Kadee couplers, using the extra flex mounts.

No need for the flex mounts unless you are under a 4’ radius (8’diameter) or have S-curves like your railroad does.

Many Thanks indeed Fred. Yes I can well imagine that the Bachmann trucks need a bit of beefing up.

Currently successfully using truck-mounted long shank KDs that seem to be OK. I know that if I move the truck any further to centre it I will have to go to body mounts. So thank you too Rooster.

Back to the OVGRS mods. Can I assume that you removed the main pivot and moved the secondary one on the bolster to, or near to, the 2-axle truck position? But what mods did you make to the pivot kingpin itself please? Do you have or could you take a pic for us please?

Thanks Kevin, I read that most days and have tried many of George’s suggestions.

Mike

Mike;

I’m sorry, I don’t do pictures. All I remember doing was modifying the Aristo body bolsters to accept the B’mann trucks, then positioning it on the car where the truck would work properly. New holes were drilled to accept the screws, if I remember correctly, but that is no problem.

The asymmetry of the trucks, the pivot point, the springing, is a mess. Adding a truck mount coupler makes me think of using the car for target practice.

If at all possible, body mount the couplers, use the flex mount on tighter curves as Rooster says.

I don’t think you need to move the bolsters, but look at the trucks, I removed a few springs on one end of the truck and it behaved better.

The absolute first problem with these is almost always solved by lubrication alone, I had a number of derailments and when the car is on it’s back you don’t realize the swiveling friction that is there when the weight of the car is on the truck.

I’d do this:

1. lubricate the trucks and remove any rough spots.

2. gauge the wheels properly and lube the axles

3. check the truck to ensure the suspension moves without friction

4. you can consider reducing the friction areas or narrowing the bolster on the truck, I don’t think this does much but some people swear by it.

5. Body mount couplers (although it’s one of the first things I do on my layout.

Many Thanks again Fr Fred

The Big Irreversible Decision for me is whether to remove the stock main pivot/bolster as a necessary precursor to moving the pivot point to the "Secondary bolster/“the one in the curved slot”. If you can recall, please confirm that’s what you did.

I don’t have any Bachmann passenger trucks any more. Have tried matching a Bachmann freight truck up to the secondary pivot on the bolster and there’s a sizable gap of about 7mm to fill - either by extending the pivot down and/or building the truck up - and using much longer screws. Don’t know if the passenger truck is the same, but does this ring any bells please?

Am also still researching swapping these out for Aristo 4-wheel trucks which we have no problems with. Can you please reveal which was the one same reason why you found that the Aristo 4 wheeled passenger trucks also gave troubles?

Sorry to try your patience, but your practical experience with fixing this problem is particularly relevant and very much appreciated.

Thank you Greg. I did your items 1-3 when I started down this road last year, thanks to your website. At the moment we are disagreeing about the couplers!

Michael, is there a reason you don’t want to go to body mounts? Makes a huge difference in the car tracking/derailing.

Greg

Thanks Greg

Only that the truck-mounted long shank KDs seem to be working OK.

Where is the evidence that body mounts make a huge difference in the car tracking/derailing?

mike

Can anyone help please with actual real-world experience of fixing older generation heavyweights for good by:

1. Removing the centre fixed axle from the Aristo 6-wheel truck, or

2. Removing the main Aristo pivot in order to centre the Aristo 6-wheel truck using the secondary pivot, or

3. Swapping the Aristo 6-wheel trucks out for Aristo 4-wheel trucks, or

4. Swapping the Aristo 6-wheel trucks out for Bachmann 4-wheel passenger trucks, and in particular building a new pivot

I am still hoping to find a solution that works!

Should this be a poll?

mike

Real world experience with Aristo Heavyweights with three axle trucks:
I don’t have any problems running three axle trucks.
If converting from two axle to three axle trucks, the bolster pin must be moved. Usually another set of holes are shown.
The rods need to be removed as they interfere with three axle truck movement.
Track curves must be 8’ or larger diameter, preferably larger than 8’ diameter.
I have converted most of my Aristo heavyweights to three axle trucks as prototypical.
I have shortened most of the coupler shanks to close up the gap between cars.
I have some two axle trucks from the conversion, but no wheels in them. The wheels/axles were used with the Aristo three axle conversion trucks as they had only the center axle. Aristocraft also had three axle trucks with all three axles installed as replacement parts.

Thank you very much Bob that’s very helpful. If you’ve shortened the coupler shanks can I assume they’re truck-mounted?

Which are the rods that need to be removed as they interfere with three axle truck movement?

Yes, I shortened the coupler shanks on the trucks and reinstalled the Aristo couplers after experimenting with Kadee body mounts with which I had mixed feelings.
The truss rods usually came in the box with the heavyweights. They are not prototypical to heavyweights and when installed will interfere with three axle truck movement as the car passes thru S curves and some curved track. Some do clear, but most don’t.
I have a mix of Aristo blue and yellow box heavyweights up to the NYC set that Aristo produced about the time that the USA Trains diecast Hudson was released.

Having seen and rode on heavyweights as a kid, I’ve always liked them, I’ve got about 15-18 of them, some of which were undecks and have been custom painted in New Haven.

Thanks again Bob

Aah the superfluous truss rods, first thing i did so had forgotten about them.

Saw one eBay seller who described them as “gold trims”, so that’s what I now think of them as!