Large Scale Central

Bachmann EBT Caboose

Actually started to send an email directly to Kevin Strong, but realized I know longer have his email address. That’s probably his good fortune. So I’ll put it to the crowd. I’ve started weening out my rolling stock at the Gateway Garden Railway Winter Meet. Couldn’t sell my EBT Cabooses, have you ever opened and looked in the cabin? It’s done very well. So has anyone calculated the scale of a Bachmann EBT Caboose? I’m moving more to 1:20.3. As I down size my inventory from the 10 years of operations to a more realistic size, I really struggle to sell the EBT Cabooses. I really like the way they look. So how far out of scale are they? I used to try to religiously stick to that complicated scale of 1:21.4, but have really given to the Bachmann geared engines of 1:20.3. You ask 1:21.4, that’s half way between the 1:22.5 crowd and the 1:20.3 crowd, but I don’t think we care about the Point 4 as much as the Point 3 crowd does. :wink:

Thank you in advance for any expertice expressed, considered, ignored or kept to yourself.

I still have a few. One lettered for Bruce’s Jackson & Burke that took a 1 year tour of the Eastern Seaboard to get here, One in Pennsylvania that I rarely use, and an EBT. Compared to the acurately scaled Accucraft and Bachman Spectrum cabeese they are pretty small. Doesn’t stop me from running them though (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

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They are a bit small for 1:20 but i always thought they looked good too.

Terry

They are also a tad large for 1:22. So I guess they could be plausable in either scale.

According to the review that was published a while back in the Timber Transfer, the caboose measures very close to the prototype in 1:22.5, though no dimensions are given. I vaguely remember taking a ruler to mine when I got it and reaching the same conclusion. It’s larger than the 1:24 model I had built when I was in high school. It does sit higher off the rails than the prototype, but the wheels are also too large compared to the prototype. Putting smaller wheels helps, as does lowering the bolster a bit.

My biggest “issue” with the Bachmann model was that they got the cupola wrong. It’s too tall and the side walls are too vertical. For whatever reason, that really blinded me to this model. I’ve never been able to look at it as anything but an EBT caboose with the wrong cupola. I never even gave it a moment’s pause to wonder how it would play in the 1:20 world.

Seeing John’s photo with it and two 1:20 cabooses, though, puts it in a fresh light for me. In that string of cabooses (cabeese?), it doesn’t stand out as an EBT caboose. The cupola actually fits in very nicely with the others, giving it some 1:20 street cred. Here, also, the added height above the railhead is a positive, as it keeps it more in line with the 1:20 models. I have no doubt that there’s a prototype out there which matches the Bachmann model in length and width. The height doesn’t look objectionable, either, though I’d bet a 5’ 10" 1:20 figure would definitely have to duck to get through the door. In fairness, though, I’m 5’ 10", and have had to duck to get through a few doorways as well, so short doors aren’t unheard of.

I think if I were to make one easy change to make it look more 1:20ish, I’d replace the trucks. They’re the wrong wheelbase (too short) even in 1:22.5, so you can definitely fit some longer-wheelbase trucks under it to give it some needed heft below the waist. I think if you do that, and find a 5’ 6" brakeman to stand on the back platform, you’d be really hard-pressed to make a claim that it’s not accurately scaled for a freelance 1:20.3 caboose.

Later,

K

PS, Ric, kcstrong (at) Comcast dot net

Here’s a couple more pictures from that same day…

Adding a beefier and takller stack could help too.

Great pictures, Jon!

Kevin, you’ve got mail.

Anybody that has one of the Bachmann Center Cupola EBT Cabooses, should take the time to open it and see how well the interior is done and usually goes unnoticed.

David Maynard said:

They are also a tad large for 1:22. So I guess they could be plausable in either scale.

See, true to that 1:21.4 :wink:

Both of mine have been opened, razor sawed, peices rearranged, new peices added, old peices discarded, and put back together. Even the interiors.

I recently drug mine down off the shelf for a paint job, couplers etc. I milled almost 1/4" off the bolsters and installed smaller wheels which does make it look a bit more like the prototype. Lowering the frame that much also required me to mill out a pocket in the end sill to get the Kadee coupler to the right height. The coupla has never bothered me that much, I think adding sun shades would help. Yeah, it needs longer wheel base trucks, I also have 30 + hoppers that need longer wheel base trucks as well, maybe some day I’ll make that happen.

I’ve gotten one torn down from about 2008, we started painting it Yeller…not sure why Eli wanted a Yeller caboose then-not sure what I’ll do with it now…maybe I need to remind him abou it. They are nice looking for sure!

So Ken, those started as Bachmann center cupola cabooses? Wow! That’s modification. Nice work!

It’s interesting to sit back and watch this discussion from my perspective. I’ve settled on 1:20 scale and plan to model the EBT. My entire roster consists of :

Ric Golding said:

So Ken, those started as Bachmann center cupola cabooses? Wow! That’s modification. Nice work!

The one in the bottom picture needs to be lowered and smaller wheels added. Sits too high. And yup, both used to be center cupola cabeeses…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Thanks to the generosity of Mr. Golding, a Bachmann EBT caboose showed up in the Tuscarora RR’s workshop. “A challenge!” says I. Let’s see what we can do with this thing. From a 1:20.3 scale perspective, the caboose is 25’ 8" long and 7’ wide. While a few inches narrower than the vast majority of narrow gauge cabooses, it’s still 7’, for which examples do exist. The caboose carbody itself (minus platforms) is 20’, which is quite respectable for a caboose. The height is low–6’ 5" from the bottom of the siding to the roofline–where 7’ give or take a few inches was more typical. Plausible, but not common.

The first thing I look at when “upscaling” a model is what I call the “human” element. Would a 5’ 10" person comfortably fit in the car?

My conductor is 5’ 10" (6’ with the cap). Here he is standing on the end platform of a stock Bachmann caboose. He’d have to duck his head a bit to get through the door, but he would fit. The height of the door is 5’ 6". The width, 1’ 8". With a figure standing on the back like this, you’d never really notice the door. The windows, however, are a bit low for what you’d typically find in cabooses. There are some cabooses that are more passenger-car-like with low windows, but they’re usually spaced as you’d find them on a passenger car, not just single windows as on this car. But if you’re looking for plausibility, it’s there. Narrow gauge railroads were odd ducks, so anything’s possible.

Having said that, look what happens when you raise the door to a more customary 6’:

The body of the caboose is raised only about 5/16". Our conductor no longer needs a steel plate in his hat to protect his head from low doors. More noticeable, though, is how it looks when in a train:

The roofline is brought up to the same height as what you see on passenger equipment and other cabooses. That’s a 1:20.3 EBT Caboose from Iron Horse Engraving in the background. Note the windows are now more in line with those on the 1:20.3 caboose as opposed to the lower windows on the passenger car.

So, what to do? I can’t simply leave the car at its original height. Next to the “proper” EBT caboose, it looks like a smaller-scale model, not its own unique car. That, and after seeing what happens when I add just a bit of height to the caboose, it’s got to be raised up.

Option 1: adding a letterboard to the top of the car:

Not objectionable, and the large lettering on the letterboard keeps the proportions of the windows somewhat balanced on the side, so they don’t look like they’re smack in the middle of the car. They’re still lower than what I’d expect to see on a caboose, but visually, they don’t look out of place. In terms of conversions, it’s a simple-enough process. For most folks, this is probably a very workable solution (if simply sticking larger trucks and a 5’ 10" conductor on the end platform isn’t enough). The problem is, when looking at this sitting next to my “proper” 1:20.3 EBT caboose, I still can’t divorce myself from the notion that this is merely an ill-proportioned attempt at an EBT caboose, and it will just look “wrong” no matter what I do to it. It’s the windows that do it.

Option 2: New sides:

As I am wont to do when searching for inspiration for non-EBT projects, I turn to other Pennsylvania narrow gauge railroads to see what they ran. My first “usual suspect”–the Tuscarora Valley RR–never had any cabooses. They ran only mixed trains. However, there’s another “TVRR” in Pennsylvania–the Tionesta Valley RR. They had a sizable fleet of cabooses. One in particular caught my attention - #111. For starters, this caboose only has 4 windows (technically 3) instead of 8, so right there, I lose the sense of “EBT-ness” brought on by the 8 windows on the Bachmann model. Additionally, the TVRR caboose has a freight door on one side in place of the window, which gives even more visual interest–especially on my railroad where trains run both directions thanks to the reverse loops. The TVRR prototype is 1’ 3" shorter than the Bachmann car, and only 6" wider, so the end result will be pretty close.

So, after years of borrowing surplus EBT cabooses, the Tuscarora RR will finally have a cabin car to call its own. When? Well, it’s on the “to-do” list of things that I want to get done before the convention this summer. It’s not at the top of that list, but I tend to work on projects as the mood strikes, so who knows? It’s certainly simple enough, so it shouldn’t take that long to put together.

Later,

K

Great idea Kevin. If you need any measurements or detail shots the partially restored TVRR 111 lives less than an hour from me. I’d be happy to take a road trip to see her once things thaw out a bit here.

Well, step away for awhile and things happen.

Going back to other inspiring projects that you, Kevin, yourself, have posted. Does it just make no sense at all, to re-skin the Bachmann EBT Caboose, kind of like you did with the Aristo single bottom wooden hoppers? You widened them by adding extra wood to the side beams, if I remember right. Since the windows need to be changed and openings repositioned, couldn’t width be adjusted out a little to a more prototypical width by new sheathing. Of course, sooner or later it would be easier to just build from scratch. :wink:

So Kevin, do you know that the EBT Caboose doors are 6 foot? I just remember them being close. I don’t know if I had to duck, but felt more comfortable doing it.

TVRR 111, Tionesta Valley Railway, learned something new. Great Picture, Jon!

Very interesting post, guys. Thanks.

I will be re-skinning the sides, in order to raise it up about 5/16". Then I’ll cut in the new windows and door on the side, and fill in the old window openings on the inside. I’ll have to re-skin the ends, too. I’ll cut the new door openings, and put the new doors in place, maybe have one opened so you can see the interior. The thickness of the new sheathing will add around 2" to the width. I could add extra width if I wanted too, but then I’d have to add more material to the sides of the roof to match, and that’s more work than I’m in the mood to do. (At least right now. Ask me again when I get going on the project. Things have a nasty habit of changing.)

I’m 98% sure the doors on the current EBT cabooses are 6’. I’m at work so I can’t check my library. I don’t recall having to duck to get through them, and I’m 5’ 10".

Later,

K

If you need to widen the roof, you could cut and splice it right down the middle. That way the roof walk will cover and hide the splice for you.

David Maynard said:

If you need to widen the roof, you could cut and splice it right down the middle. That way the roof walk will cover and hide the splice for you.

David, I’ve always called my buddy who gives me these kind of suggestions a bad friend. You know, they are always encouraging suggestions, but they usually mean more work for the person they encourage, if not jumping in close to over ones head. Don’t worry, even though I call him my bad friend to his face all the time, I still like to hang out with him! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)