Craig Townsend said:
John,
If I remember correctly Dirk was planning on even bigger turnouts on the “main”.
-snip-
Yes, I think this was a yard lead.
He had finished sections that revealed his craftsmanship and painted in the blanks … a big loss.
Greg Elmassian said:
Interesting choice of frog numbers, most people pick 6, 8, 10, etc. Why 9 and 11? Just curious (and envious!)
Greg
p.s. I miss Dirk, had a lot of fun brainstorming conversations with him.
I have been doing quite a bit of research lately on building turnouts in 7-1/2 inch gauge. Quite a bit of help from Marty Cozad who is expanding his 1 inch layout now. I believe at last count he has built thirty turnouts in this scale! I have been trying to find companies that offer kits for turnouts in the ride on scales. Recently found a new vendor that supplies the entire product line in 7-1/2 inch gauge now from the bulk aluminum rail all the way through ties, fishplates and tie plates. Recently they have developed a turnout kit that can be assembled and used in under 90 minutes! AND they offer cast aluminum frogs ready to use in #5 (32 ft. radius), #7 (60 ft. radius) and #9 (102 ft. radius). Note Craig Townsend’s comment on the prototype railroad’s use of #5,#7 and #9. The radii are figured for the closure rails, not a radius through the frog (as in most model railroading turnouts including large scale “G”). Other vendors do offer #4, #6 and #8. Even have vendors who CNC mill custom frogs.
I will be building a #5 RH turnout for use of my point to point 7-1/2 inch gauge layout at my home. It will be a little under 9 feet long and weigh about 120 pounds. The number 9 is about 11 feet long and weighs about 140 pounds. That’s why they call this scale “hernia scale” :)!
I also miss Dirk…always enjoyed talking with him.
My USA geeps and Hudson have been happy with USA’s #6 switch… They also list a 10’ switch … : usa trains
Pete Thornton said:
Rick Marty said:
Just for the sake of conversation, what code rail are we talking about? Not all switches are available in all codes.
Well, in a theoretical conversation about frog sizes/angles and radii, the rail code doesn’t matter. A #6 frog is the same in any size rail. In practical terms, I’m sure the original poster was thinking of code 332 (LGB, Piko, etc.)
True, the rail height doesn’t matter in a theoretical discussion about frog angles. But the comment is that “not all switch (angles) are available in all (rail) codes.” So while a given number frog has the same geometry for rail diversion, regardless of rail height, that same given number of frog may not be available in the code of rail the OP chooses to use. That was the point of the post.
Thanks Craig, have not studied the lower numbered frogs in prototype, I have heard of 20, 22, 24 which are all even numbers, but had not learned the lower numbers. Interesting that you have 5 odd followed by 4 even.
Greg
But isn’t there a number 6 switch in the yard in Orbansonia?
That’s why I like narrow gauge railroads like the EBT. They can be more accurately modeled with model train track sized geometry.
Wow!! Thanks everyone for the lesson on switches, frogs and the like. My track is mix mash of Aristo, LGB and whatever I can find on eBay for a decent price. And it’s all 332. So, my take away is to stay with as large a switch as I can fit…the nice thing about this is I’ve expanded the width of my main portion of garden an additional 4 feet which gives a lot of room. My original track plan was one big mainline, but I’m wanting to expand to two separate mainlines in order to run multiple trains.
Thanks,
Richard
the new plan sounds like a good idea, I always liked the thought of having 2 trains running in opposite directions, gives a little "drama’ and of course more interest to watch as they roll by!keep us posted on progress, maybe one year we can stop by on our way to Hillcrest Farms around Halloween
Staying on topic
Nobody stated that Hickory makes a great switch .
I wanted much longer switches as I shifted to 7/8th scale. I choked on the prices so made my own…each took a day or so, the prices are certainly worth it…they probably work better too. They do not really scale for 7/8th though where some of mine do…more or less.
Greg Elmassian said:
The frog in the WR is closest to a #4 just for the record.
Greg
I was so disappointed Greg. I needed the chart because I am going outdoors to indoors but it won’t print on my Epson printer. It says it is copywritten!
Yes, read this page: (especially the stuff in BOLD RED) https://elmassian.com/ Complete explanation, and it’s unfortunately necessary.
Drop me an email, I’ll send you a copy of whatever you want.
Greg
Hi all
Before you decide what “size” switch to use you have to decide what you are running and the size of the area you have to build your railroad. Paul Burch said it best, “As wide a radius as will fit.” If you are running live steam then #8 switches with at least 11ft radius curves on the rest of you railroad. All my switches are #8 and my ruling radius is 12ft. Originally I designed my layout with 10ft radius curves. A friend said you can get 12 ft radius curves in, do it. I am so glad I did.
Yours in the Hobby
Dan
Welcome Dan!
Here’s some background info:
http://www.akrailroad.com/digital-catalog
The frog info starts on page 49. In a nutshell the commonly produced AREMA bolted frogs run from #4 through #12. these are commonly used in yards, industrial, and secondary mainline trackage and are built to order. In my tourist railroad career I’ve seen nearly all those sizes in track or loose. when scrounging for anything under 100# you end up walking a lot of track and measuring a lot of iron. Your options for rail bound manganese or cast frogs get small because of the complexity of making them so the manufactures make a smaller selection so they can keep stock casting on hand.
For those of you who like a brain twister take a look at this:
http://www.caltrain.com/assets/_engineering/engineering-standards-2/Drawings/2000s/NO9DOUBLESLIP.pdf
For those keeping track that’s an inside double slip.
Now one important thing to remember about AREMA and the US based trackwork suppliers is that they all deal in only standard gauge. ask them to build a narrow gauge turnout and they will politely decline.
Enjoy!
Paul
But, aren’t the parts for a narrow gauge turnout the same, I mean, as long as the rails weight is the same. A number 6 frog is a number 6 frog, it doesn’t know if the stock rail is 56 1/2 inches away, or 42 inches away.
Yep, that is true, and one thing that is helpful to say for our friends trying to select switches for their model railroad, it’s not just the frog number alone, because many companies make a switch that is curved all the way through the diverging route, not standard prototype practice.
So, it gets more complicated than just diverging angle set by the frog number. This is of course to allow sectional track plans to work more easily, you can insert an Aristo Wide Radius or a USAT 10’ switch (using their terminologies) into a 10’ diameter curve and it all mates up smoothly, i.e. the diverging leg matches exactly with the existing curvature of the track.
Greg
ask them to build a narrow gauge turnout and they will politely decline.
The E.B.T. RR has its own planer for making point rails and fabricating frogs in 3’ gauge.
For those of you who like a brain twister take a look at this:
http://www.caltrain.com/assets/_engineering/engineering-standards-2/Drawings/2000s/NO9DOUBLESLIP.pdf
For those keeping track that’s an inside double slip.
I made a couple of them. The easiest one was a kit (Old Pullman?) in O-scale that just needed soldering or spiking to some ties.
Pete Thornton said:
ask them to build a narrow gauge turnout and they will politely decline.
The E.B.T. RR has its own planer for making point rails and fabricating frogs in 3’ gauge.
Yes they do. The components are the same, frogs, heel blocks, points and the plates but the geometry is different and they do not have a stock AREMA print that they can use to kick someof the liability down the road.
The simple solution is to order the components you need and get out the calculator and figure out where everything needs to be and start cutting.