I’d like to muse a bit on something I’ve encountered on two websites, in a hobby I’m just getting back into after a long hiatus.

I’ve recently joined a couple of websites for, lets call it, Widget Working. I have a cheap Widget that I bought second hand, and I am adding capability to the Widget with some DIY work (which is incredibly common in the Widget hobby).

I joined two websites for Widgets, which are the ones that appear to be the top sites in the hobby. Each site has a “Once you register, say hi, and tell us what you are doing with your Widget.” On the first site, my opening post was met with over a dozen “Welcome back to the Widget hobby, it sounds like you are having fun and learning some things about your new Widget”. In two weeks I have over 50 posts in a dozen threads, and feel right at home. On the second site, my identical post was met with three posts. One “Welcome to the site” type post from a moderator, one “Your cheap Widget is really poor quality. You want to stop wasting time modifying it, and save your money for a quality Widget” and the third was “You did the Z modification incorrectly, you probably want to do it at an angle to avoid problems.” I’ve stopped posting there.

Is that any surprise? Bringing this back to LSC, guess what kind of complaints I get from new users about how LSC feels to new people? Guess what kind of complaints I spend my time responding to our existing members?

I think a lot of us go out of our way to welcome newcomers and old friends from other sites to LSC. A person travels, even through the internet, where they feel welcome. All of us want to show off our work and feelings about how we approach our portion of the hobby or something new we’ve found or a different way of doing something. Bob, you’ve done a good job controlling the personalities of lots of different folks and keeping us civil, while allowing the hobby to be supported. I know, its a lot like herding kittens.

Just like you quit posting on the one Widget site, those of us that have been around the large scale portion of model railroading for awhile, tend to gather where we feel we fit in and where our friends are monitoring and posting.

I would like to answer you last question first, with out doubt it is the second. In my 8 or 9 years here on LSC I have observed a shift in the forum. I have observed the growth of the forum in numbers of members, and a growth in the diversity of personalities and knowledge. I have also noticed an increase in the number of ‘eggsperts’ in everything.

Our hobby, like many others, offers a variety of products at many different levels of cost and quality. I personally own equipment in the full range from American Scientific (all the way on the bottom of the cost and quality scale) to Accucraft (pretty much the pinnacle of price and detail). What I find interesting in my experience is that they all have issues that need to be addressed. I think what makes a site, a site you want to return to is how questions are answered by the members of the site.

In your post, you comment that site one you feel at home. I interpret this to mean that a question will be answered by the members in a direct and positive manner. In other word, in stead of saying as in your example “Your cheap Widget is really poor quality. You want to stop wasting time modifying it, and save your money for a quality Widget” this could have been answered something like this “The widget you are working with has a reputation for not being very durable. Investing time and money here may be disappointing in the long run. I would suggest working with a higher quality widget if you can afford one. Now on to your question …” This answer in my opinion says the same thing, but not using 80 grit sand paper to say it. And if you are going to post in that light, continue on to answer the OP question, even if you think it is a less than optimum solution.

I believe there is always two ways to approach a subject. Either the glass is half empty of the glass is half full. With that in mind, I will post answers to questions if I have information that I believe will add value to the thread, otherwise I will not post at all. And if the post has any form of process to it, I will usually start by telling the folks that this is the process I use and is not necessarily the ONLY precess. As in most things there is more than one way to ‘Skin the cat’, we should all remember that. I always try to keep things in a positive note, negativity does nothing to improve a topic. The only time I would consider making a negative post is if I saw something that would, without doubt, end up disastrous. And I haven’t seen any of those yet.

Referring back to my first paragraph, I have watched this site loose many good modelers who have either taken their skills off line or just don’t bother to post at all for fear of the ‘eggsperts’ having their say. I think this has cost this site a tremendous resource. I miss the build threads that used to be abundant here, where I learned a lot about large scale and modeling as a whole. I most miss the sharing of tips, tricks, and techniques that those modelers have taken with them. Some are still here and post occasionally (and cautiously), some have gone and only lurk silently in the back ground to keep up with folks they are friends with.

I don’t have a magic bullet solution for this situation, and I certainly don’t envy Bob having to deal with it. I had hoped the Reputation system would help mitigate this issue, but even there the ‘eggsperts’ found a way to abuse that as well. One time before, Bob threatened to take the site down, and at that time quite frankly I supported that thought. I wonder if it is time for that threat again? Or maybe the ultimate, do it.

My dad used to tell me that ‘Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people’. I will close with the question ‘Which one are you?’

So you are seeing another Forum behind our back! I suspected as much when you bought that new ergonomic keyboard and started trimming your cuticles. I thought it was just a case of middle age crazy but I see now that you wanted more content. Why isn’t our content enough for you Bob? Is it the graphics? To many pictures, not enough modeling threads…just tell us what to do Bob and we will change! Or is this just a tawdry fling. Is the other Forum prettier than us? Does it fulfill your technical needs with interactive avatars and personalized voice recognition when you visit it. OMG!!! Are you using the same transistors to surf it where all of your LSC buddies post? How can you bring that filthy IP into the same server where LSC lives? I feel so violated! Whats next Bob? Facebook, Cloud…INSTAGRAM??? …And you call yourself a moderator!!! You are nothing more than desk top support.

I am going to go call your modem and tell it what you’ve done. You and your new forum deserve each other! Boo hoo hoo hoo…I hope your Z modified widget that you didn’t do at an angel gives you problems!!!

I am just thouroughly out of the forum habit…I used to post while I was deep in a project to get feedback…sometimes some of my best ideas would come from someone else…then it got to the point…I would post something and it would be met with crickets…so I quit…

I think we can partially blame social media, its so easiy, accessable, and part of our daily lives, but there isn;t really any way to document a proper build thread for posterity. At least not one where you can go back and revisiti it months and years later. I can remeber back in the day we were alll always building something, reasearching something, and shareing the wealth. Then something happened, it became more of who can throw the most money into their project, or who can insult the manufactuers the worst or why XBrand is Garbage and Y Brand is always the best. Or it was this is how I did it…if you don;t do it my way you are WRONG!!! instead of a ositive thoughtinducing experience, it wasn;t fun any more…

Bart, I think you have been derailed from LSC by your artistic talent! At least I keep up with you on Facebook.

I started with LSC when I started with garden railroading and have never joined another list. I enjoy the members on this list and appreciate the advice I get.

I only got sidetracked from the list because of the Master Gardener program that I have gotten active with. I am now getting back to the list and being active with both. Now that Fall is here I am doing my Spring maintenance!

I migrated from MLS to LSC primarily because the majority of MLS topic threads became too narrowed in scope . LSC has much more topic variety covering many interests in the GS hobby.

I don’t look at a given company’s product as junk if it has some issue with it, but rather, how to resolve the issue.

Accordingly, when I post a thread for the that part of the hobby that I embrace it usually has info about how to resolve an issue and how to implement a fix for it with illustrations and link to full detail that serves to memorialize what is done for the benefit of others as well as myself to avoid having to “reinvent the wheel” should the need arise for a revisit at a much later date.

-Ted

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a widget?

Tony

Slang term for useful or interesting piece of kit, technology, tool or unusual product. First cousin to a thingamajig.

Tony Walsham said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a widget?

I think its these, funny as I think these are just a massive waste of time (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

Bob McCown said:

…Guess what kind of complaints I spend my time responding to our existing members?

You get inundated with complaints about LSC members being too nice?

Bart Salmons YOG said:

I would post something and it would be met with crickets…

Join the club! I tried to inject a little humor a couple of times (yeah, that was humor) and after that I felt like I was standing in a ghost town watching the tumblin’ tumbleweeds go by. I said to myself, “Mike, did you just lay an egg?” I know I can’t hold a candle to the likes of senior members Caughey and Rooster and Boomer and David when it comes to humor, but I’ll keep trying. Hey, I’m no eggspert either, but at least I’m effing “Respected” (I had to ask for it). The more I get “Users say thanks to” votes, the more it inspires me to post worthwhile stuff and responses. Sometimes I think there’s East/West contingents here. Not much representation here on the Left coast it seems. OK, enough cryin’. wipes eyes with sleeve

What was this thread about again? Oh yeah, "Tale of Two Websites. Such as…“Large Scale Central” and “My Large Scale”.

Or some of the things I have asked you about over the years! Do they get listed in their own category?

I guess these people who say we are too nice must have heard stores about members “yelling” at each other years ago over various topics. To me some of those “yelling matches” were “entertaining” but I think some of those people need a website where we can see the smoke coming out of the website but we don’t have to look at it! Or do you want to create a special category that they can be banished to? Just asking!

I have put the LSC Death Squad on Alert Standby BD…we await your orders enlightened one.

Ease up Dudes Mike said I’m funny!!! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(emoticon at BobCo’s request)

I didn’t join a website because the threads I read there were flame wars. I was getting more then my fill of that at work (at the time).

One of my first posts here on LSC was met with a “you stupid newbie” type response, and I almost drifted out of LSC because of it. Not everyone has the knowledge base and experiences that you have, so to chastise and/or roughly rebuke someone, for not knowing what you know is wrong. The point of these forum things is to share knowledge, not slap down those who do not already possess it.

Now that I have more exposure to the folks here, I have more tolerance for that type of individual who makes the “you stupid newbie” comment, since I realize who those folks are and just let them rave on.

Another thing that turns me off is when 2 ( or 3) of those folks, who have high opinions of themselves, get into personal attacks against each other, on an open forum. All that does is sour peoples’ opinions of the folks who are attacking each other. And it makes the site as a whole look bad.

In my mind, I feel that since we all share the same interest/hobby, that we should be a community of folks who rally together to help each other, not belittle one of our own. There are enough folks in the world who are more then willing to belittle someone for “playing with toy trains.” I suffered such an attack at work once, by one of my supervisors.

Bob, I thank you for your efforts, and patience with me, and some of the other folks on here, that need a gentle reminder from time to time to play nice. And I hope you continue to put up with folks like me.

‘Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people’

fine, so let’s discuss people…

“eggsperts” were mentioned.

if i read something like that in a context like above, i could doubt, if i am one of those, the writer had in mind, when he wrote.

or i could be sure, that he cant mean me.

in the first case we might loose another poster. in the second case the shot didn’t hit the target.

i think we all are experts. in this or that aspect of the hobby.

i, for instance, am an expert in modeling with junk material. specially coffee stirrers. a “stickspert” so to say.

but to the problem that caused this thread:

there are so many aspects or facts that interact, that i don’t think we can blame anything specific.

fact is, this is mainly an Old Men’s hobby.

not only, that some of us die, but many of us slow down, are less active.

once a layout is built, the desire to comunicate for learning is less urgent.

the easyness of use, the new media give us, makes more and more of us to use facebook and similars, instead of oldfashioned forums.

retirement is a lie. it simply is not true, that we have more time avayable than before. from "darling do"s to developing snailspeed and failing memory there are so many factors…

most persons of the younger generations don’t share our fascination for trains. (and if they do, they buy programs, instead of building layouts)

sooo, in short, we are all Dodos.

one of the problems here, and on social media is the lack of being able to hear the " tone of voice" or the intent of some one who is answering a question. Some times a person is kidding or joking and without hearing the tone of voice, a war starts. The need of a sarcasm font is real

I have spent a lot of time expanding my knowledge by reading old threads , and I have come across those with the black lock of death. Reading some of them it is clear that misunderstanding the intent or wording of a well intentioned bit of advice has caused a flareup, or sometimes it is as simple as the actual wording , and I am as guilty of this as a lot of others, I skim what someone is writing instead of reading exactly what they are saying and come to the wrong conclusion.

Some times it comes from a point of view, and as we all know we all have one and some people just without knowing it have a way with words that can rub a lot of people the wrong way. A lot of times on facebook and some times here, I see someone ask a question , for example: " how many feeder wires for a 200ft layout", and almost all the time within the first 2 or 3 responses someone will answer " go battery" and that is when things go south. the go battery person should be called out for being disrespectful. We all know on some things there are strong ideas and opinions and in a short time I learned by reading what questions to NOT ask, they are just too volatile. My .02 worth.

Edited to change word I thought put, “disrespectful” Thanks Tony.

I can see how saying “go battery” could be disrespectful, but it would hardly be disrespectable. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Bob McCown said:… one “Your cheap Widget is really poor quality. You want to stop wasting time modifying it, and save your money for a quality Widget” and the third was “You did the Z modification incorrectly, you probably want to do it at an angle to avoid problems.” .

Ahh, I see you found the Star Trek Trekkies.

(that has been the nature of my experience with almost all of them I have encountered, and in some discussion on Starship Modeler it was learned a number of others have encountered that behavior within the breed)

Seriously though, I have to wonder whether those two characters have Asperger’s/autism or are merely arrogant.

There are so many things at play here that it is difficult to offer a solution. We are dealing with a wide variety of skill sets, personalities and attitudes which can be a good thing when those with strong personalities and or bad attitudes can keep them in check. The best advice I can offer to posters is to read what you wrote, several times before hitting send. Try and hear your writing from the OP’s point of view. Even then, some people may take offense to a carefully crafted reply for numerous reasons; one being they simply did not read the entire reply and comprehend it.

Regarding recent content; I agree that number of build / project threads has gone down in recent years. Bart’s answer has a lot to do with it. Editing pictures, uploading them then writing description of what you are doing takes effort. If that effort isn’t met with at least several ‘thanks for posting’ or other positive comments, the motivation to post more project threads goes down. If you don’t feel like typing a comment, but enjoyed a post, at least click on the Thank button. It’s the closest we have to FB’s Like and it goes a long way toward giving gratitude to someone who made an effort to post a project.

Project / Build Log content is needed because it inspires others to try the same. Kevin Strong posted pictures on FB of his structure lighting. That inspired and motivated me to get my stalled lighting plans off the shelf. My project thread inspired Shawn Viggiano to do the same on his RR. His post offers his take on how to get it done which differs from mine, which differs from Kevin’s. Readers (that can access FB or Kevin’s blog) now have three documented methods to add night life to their layout. I can’t wait to see who runs with the ideas next and what they do with it.

A quick opinion about Blogs, FB and personal website posts. As Kevin found, it is sometimes easier to start and update a blog then to post a build log here. I can see the logic here, but there is also a need to expose others outside your regular audience to your posts. A few pictures and a link posted here will enhance the content of this site and drive more readers to your off-site post.

Don’t be afraid to post projects because you think your skills are not good enough. Our most famous (on this site anyway) modeler is the late Allan Bupp aka MIK. His layout was small radius sectional track set on cinder blocks. His modeling shop was his laundry room / washing machine top. His painting skills were a little better than a first grader. But, he posted prolifically, both his own work and offering suggestions to others. He inspired many people to try things for the first time and be proud of the results even if it was beginner level stuff. He spread his enthusiasm by putting together an build challenge to encourage first time modelers to try something. This tradition continues as a memorial in the Annual Mik’s Build Challenge. The challenge, to this day, gets lots of folks into their shops in the dead of winter and posting their results, good or bad, for all to see.