The solitary disintegration of an aircraft in Colorado surely proves the point . The aircraft using correctly applied superglue fly on ad nauseum .
I also use other fasteners . To claim that any are perfect would be silly .
But to malign a very useful product is not very helpful .
Mike
If reporting my experiences with a product is “maligning” it in your eyes, then we’ll have to disagree (yet again.)
Later,
K
Kevin ,
I have had no trouble with CA . I was trying to tactfully suggest that you may not have used it properly . That’s all . Thus giving others who haven’t used it a bit more encouragement to try it .
Properly used , it is one of the most beneficial modelling aids that have hit us .
At the ever increasing risk of sounding like an old fart , I’ve been using it since it came out in the sixties .
Rest assured that the Armed Forces would not use it if it did not work .
It is used in aviation work , after the space stuff , probably the most exacting of environments .
There are places where it will not work . There are places where it will deteriorate . But usually the deterioration is accompanied by the same problem in the material being glued .To leave a wooden wagon out in the rain is just asking for trouble , but the paint and wood suffer before the CA . Usually because the paint covers the CA . This frequently leaves a wodge of cured CA with dank wood hanging off it .
Kevin , I do not look at a post and say
"Ah , Kevin . Let’s knock the crap out of this one "
I get that done to me , but it pleases little minds so I just grin and bear it .
I think your mistake was saying it is better to use two pack glues .
No , it isn’t .
For Araldite to work , you need exo thermic chemical reaction to take place . This only works correctly with larger than needed quantities . So half the stuff you mix is going to be wasted . Imagine accurately mixing the amount for fitting the corner brackets to a body . Then attaching it without it squidging out and spoiling the look .
CA applied to the bracket and zip kick applied to the body gives a neat , almost instant bond . No waste .No sticky deposit
Two pack almost never mixes correctly and leaves a sticky residue where mixing has not taken place . This means that you may be applying unmixed glue to an object . Twin Pack is absolutely not used in aerospace except by trained operators . Mind you , nor is CA . But , I maintain that used correctly , it is the glue of preference for many modellers . I am not knocking you , I am knocking what you wrote .
Please don’t take it personally .
Mike
I have had good luck using CA for sticking metal stuff together but I like most of you, have an assortment of glues. I prefer Ambroid glue when attaching wood to wood. That comes from when I use to build model airplanes, many years ago… Walther’s GOO is pretty good for bonding different materials together.
I guess, hehe, it depends on what you like to stick with !!!
Cheers,
Wow!!! This has certainly turned out to be the most amazing post… considering what the original question was.
However, per one of my other questions here in this post. Has anyone built any of these models I mentioned?
I don’t like using super glues on models but have in the past when necessary. I do however carry tubes of it when working, camping, hiking, hunting etc. I’ve been known to lay open sections of my body doing, well, dumb things so super glue has saved me from most hospital trips for stitches.
Jon.
Timmy ,
Seems like you are on your own for the moment . If it’s any consolation , I did make one of their kits and it came out OK . I don’t remeber if the instructions were any good ,sorry . Don’t b put off about super glue .
Just be careful with it , and if in doubt ,use the medium one .
Best thing is try making it and if you get stuck , ask .
Mike
Mike, we’re on the same page, but reading different paragraphs. CA is great stuff when used in the environment for which it’s well suited. Certainly my uncle’s fleet of R/C planes were quite airworthy having been put together with the stuff. And I’ve built quite a few HO scale (and large scale) models using primarily CA with very good results. BUT, these models weren’t subject to everyday handling or bumping into them occasionally with too much steam in the cylinders. My models are hand-carried to and from the railroad, and the various bits and bobbles which adorn the outside of them are subject to lots of stress in the process.
It’s not a matter of “not using it properly” in the sense of application, but not using it properly in terms of environment. There are certain environments where–based on my personal experience–CA isn’t my first choice of adhesive. Use a non-waterproof glue outdoors in the rain, it’s gonna fail. The glue joint may have been applied properly, but the environment to which it’s subjected is what ultimately does it in.
Your experience with epoxies seems to somewhat parallel my experience with CA. You don’t seem to be fond of it; I’ve never had an ounce of trouble using it. It’s a matter of personal preference. Some artists use pastels, some use oils, some watercolors. It’s all what we’re used to using.
Will CA work on the NENG kits? Certainly. Will epoxies work? Certainly. Since the kits are mostly wood, Titebond II (or other carpenter’s glue) would certainly be an appropriate choice. What neither of us know is the environment in which the model will run. How will it be handled? Are there going to be detailed bits that may be in danger of breaking off if handled too frequently or roughly? Would it make a difference? Those are questions only the builder can answer. All we can do–and have done effectively–is lay out what each of our individual experiences have been, and let the reader make his/her own decisions. Over time, each individual builder will come to decide for him/herself what works for them. Could be bubble gum, for all we know.
(I tried using bubble gum once… but I blew it.)
Later,
K
Kevin , nicely presented
Of course , you are right . it’s not just horses for courses or even how you ride them , it’s how the course is handled .
I use two pack quite a lot actually .
I find that to get it to work without mess it is better to mix the minimum quantity that will produce generous exothermic reaction .
This varies with different types ,so I won’t try to define the amount,except to say that I have yet to find one that works with less than a "squeeze of toothpaste " size --yes , I still have my own teeth (plus a few borrowed from the dentist ).I use a mini drill to do the mixing with a special stirrer on it , rather like a screwdriver blade .
I have found General Purpose model cement useful too , it’s a bit like balsa cement and dries quickly ,even joining metals . UHU do a good one of those .
There’s also odd other fixes you can do , like using nail varnish as a thread lock where you want a quick removal , but not a falling off removal My favourite shade is Teasing Pink --only because it shows up well .
The single most important thing is surface preparation . Alcohol or white spirit are useful degreasers and GP cleaners . A vacuum cleaner fitted with a small soft brush is good --almost essential – for dust removal .
I’m sure we haven’t done this one to death , Kevin , we will almost certainly both think of something else .
Let’s just hope we have helped other modellers
Cheers , Mike
So, I finally got around to building one of these wood kits. I have learned what CA glue is and have used both a thin and gel form on this model. I have been plugging along at this now bit by bit for a number of months and am finally getting pretty close to finishing. The biggest obsticle I ran into was the lack of clarity with the instructions. There is one small page that says to start with the base and work up basically, but the rest is just a diagram with part measurements. I have made “numerous” mistakes along the way and fortunetly have been able to deviate and continue on. I have had to request more pieces from the seller of these models and there were parts missing and pieces not cut to proper sizes. Not to mention the pieces I had to cut to size… That was a learning experience. Even though if by chance I purchase one of these kits again I will have a much better idea of how this all works I don’t necessarily recommend these kits to anyone.
I will post pictures when I am finished.
Almost finished! I ordered some extra parts from Ozark Minatures to finish off the caboose. I also need to add some couplers. The unit sits kind of high so, I am going to have to think about this. All in all it didn’t turn out to bad. I was able to work around the mistakes.
Timmy,
It’s a logging caboose, whatever mistakes you made are “improvements ordered by the shop foreman”. That’s why some of those kits have skimpy instructions. 
Whose wheel sets are those?
Hi, If the caboose stands too high above the rail, simply use smaller wheels.
In this case, a www.lasergang. de design, I used cheap archbar truck plastic side castings with Ozark springs and axle guards, breaks, plus some 25m Bachmann metal wheels. Today I´d use Tenmille or IP Engineering steel wheels.
I´d never use CA glue to attach metal parts to wood. It gets brittle after some months, as somebody stated before. If you use it for clear plastic, the fumes ruin the surface of it. The 5 minute, two component stuff is much better. I normally use glues, which stay elastic for a long time. In England this would be Greenit, in Germnay Pattex. Something like it should be around on other continents. But wherever possible, I prefer additional small nails or screws, when working with metall and wood. Have Fun Juergen Zirner
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Timmy,It’s a logging caboose, whatever mistakes you made are “improvements ordered by the shop foreman”. That’s why some of those kits have skimpy instructions.
Whose wheel sets are those?
Here is the kit from Northeast Model Products,
http://www.nemodel.com/shop/agora.cgi?cart_id=6902270.4743*jt27m1&p_id=2231&xm=on&ppinc=search2
Here are the wheels and trucks they suggest for this model. It appears to be their own wheel set.
http://www.nemodel.com/shop/agora.cgi?cart_id=6902270.4743*UR3902&p_id=3289&xm=on&ppinc=search2
Zirner said:
Hi, If the caboose stands too high above the rail, simply use smaller wheels.
In this case, a www.lasergang. de design, I used cheap archbar truck plastic side castings with Ozark springs and axle guards, breaks, plus some 25m Bachmann metal wheels. Today I´d use Tenmille or IP Engineering steel wheels.
I´d never use CA glue to attach metal parts to wood. It gets brittle after some months, as somebody stated before. If you use it for clear plastic, the fumes ruin the surface of it. The 5 minute, two component stuff is much better. I normally use glues, which stay elastic for a long time. In England this would be Greenit, in Germnay Pattex. Something like it should be around on other continents. But wherever possible, I prefer additional small nails or screws, when working with metall and wood. Have Fun Juergen Zirner
Simpler said then done. Once the wheels and trucks are assembled you cannot take them apart easily. I agree however, that the wheels they suggest for this thing are to big and expensive. I am still not quite sure how I am going to attach a couple as the caboose sits to high. I attached an extension below the end of each side of the caboose to bring that area down further in hopes I can attach a coupler.
Timmy, Perhaps a coupler like the Kadee 1779 would work
http://kadee.com/htmbord/page369.htm It mounts on the sill plate
I would think that Accucraft couplers would look and operate the best on something like that. They are sill mounted.
Warren
Hi, it depends, which time scheme you model in. Jenny/knuckle couplers were introduced rather late in the 19th century. Some backwood lines used link & pin couplers way into twenties and thirties. These OZARK link & pins, the ones with the spring in it, works quite well on my waggons, as long as you don´t have too tight curves.
The centerline of a coupling should be the same as the wheel´s height. It looks, as if the trucks are not mounted properly to the NENG caboose. There is a huge gap visible between the bolster and the crossbeam of the trucks. Have Fun Juergen Zirner
Warren Mumpower said:
I would think that Accucraft couplers would look and operate the best on something like that. They are sill mounted.Warren
But aren’t those model after the SG size that DRG&W and/or RGS used?? A bit large for a logging line??
Zirner said:
Hi, it depends, which time scheme you model in. Jenny/knuckle couplers were introduced rather late in the 19th century. Some backwood lines used link & pin couplers way into twenties and thirties. These OZARK link & pins, the ones with the spring in it, works quite well on my waggons, as long as you don´t have too tight curves.
The centerline of a coupling should be the same as the wheel´s height. It looks, as if the trucks are not mounted properly to the NENG caboose. There is a huge gap visible between the bolster and the crossbeam of the trucks. Have Fun Juergen Zirner
Yup… as I have stated, the instructions for these puppies are very hard to follow. In order for the wheels to clear underneath, I had to put a spacer on top of the truck I personally don’t car about being prototypical, I just want to be able to connect this thing up to my Bachmann logging cars.