Large Scale Central

War on poverty

General Discussion
#41

The charts reflect the inflation rate–they are indexed to inflation. You’re not getting it.

The number of people living in poverty has dropped under democratic administrations. And it’s risen under Republican administrations. There it is.

All the rest of what you are posting is a flailing misdirection, because you have no answer to that chart. I was in a union, the SEIU, and it GAVE me nothing. By organizing it EARNED me a decent wage for hard work. “Massa” did not like the union one bit–massa liked workers to be as poor and as desperate as possible.

The original post asked why poor people vote democrat. I answered that actually, McCain voters tended to be poorer, and Obama voters to be more wealthy. And I’m concluding further that voting for Democrats has been good for people living in poverty–both rural and urban poverty, both white and black. This is your cue to denounce all those people as parasites, because they want higher wages for the work they do. Huh?

#42
Ric Golding said:
Mike -

You said - “The original post claimed that democrats were poor. I posted contrary statistics that pointed out that in fact, democrats are on the whole better educated and more affluent than republican voters (though not by much) but that Obama voters were significantly better educated and more affluent that McCain voters. Please not, I’m not endorsing this or claiming that being educated or rich makes you a better person or always right. I’m just reporting the facts.”

Do you ever get a cramp patting yourself on the back for being such a good educator? Well educated and well indoctrinated seem to have become almost interchangeable words to you. What is it you want to hear? I’m happy for you that things are working out the way you wanted them. How’s the “change” working for you so far? Are you delaring that the “War on poverty” has been won? I’m not seeing it.


Ric, read the post! First I said–and Im quoting myself here–“It’s certainly clear that the War on Poverty did not end poverty.” So no, I’m absolutely not declaring that the war on poverty has been won. Then I wrote this: “I’m not endorsing this or claiming that being educated or rich makes you a better person or always right.” So I’m not patting myself on the back either or claiming superiority personally either. But the initial claim was just wrong. It was posted here and got a bunch of Amen’s, but it’s wrong. Would it be better if I just said “it’s wrong” and made no attempt to show why? Or would it be better --I think I know the answer–if I never checked in here and 6 guys could have an echo chamber where they all said “government sucks and democracts are all lazy parasites” to each other all day long?

I’m not asking for congratulations, I’m posting facts. You can make of them what you want.

#43

YOU CAN ALMOST FEEL THE LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING ON THIS THREAD…!

#44

A Democrat said this, now if he said this today, what would the Democrats say?

John Kennedy once said to a assembled group of scholars in the White House, “I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House - with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.”

The quotes below could prove his point.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe

Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.

Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.

Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Thomas Jefferson

Very Interesting Quote:

In light of the present financial crisis, it’s interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

Doesn’t this sound eerily familiar to what is happening in America today?

No! This is exactly what is happening in America this instant!

#45

If I gave a bunch of quotes from Hamilton that said the opposite, would it make any difference? He does not have a monument but he’s on the ten.

#46

Mike,

I’m sure your right.

#47

Mike,

You said - “If I gave a bunch of quotes from Hamilton that said the opposite, would it make any difference? He does not have a monument but he’s on the ten.”

I believe Hamilton does have a monument. Its called the United States Coast Guard.

Semper Paratus :wink:

#48

Ric Golding said:
Mike, I’m sure your right.

You are not!

(http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/smileywink.gif)

Semper Paratus indeed! Hamilton kind of gets a bum rap because he wasn’t an idealogue like Jefferson and because in some ways he was an elitist. He thought the rich should run things and he was quick to try to put down “the people” if they got uppity. But he was smart, practical, and not a hypocrite. He got way more harder stuff done than Jefferson and if you want to find out which of the founders is most responsible for the US becoming a great industrial world power, Hamilton is your guy

#49

mike, you avoided the evidence against your claim of superior economic prosperity via the Donkeys. If it somehow is difficult to grasp how I am keeping the discussion fluid, let me quote again my last post with comments, for your rebuttal.
.
.

Quote:
. . .Would you agree that to raise the standard of living of the poor, they should, a. have good paying jobs and b. have affordable commodities? [b]Earning $25 an hour is insufficient if a loaf of bread costs $14.00.[/b]

Having a job is good for the individual, have jobs that produce a product or provide a service or idea is essential for our economic health. Government jobs are merely “make work” jobs and produce nothing. GOOD jobs are created by the private sector, individuals like myself that started their own business and hired employees.

By increasing my taxes, since my gross income is (was before I retired) over $300,000, I will either hire less people, or simply pass on the additional tax in the form of overhead expenses to the poor widows.or other Americans if higher union wages are imposed Taxing the rich, will not punish the rich as we are being told.

The new administration’s “payoff” to the Unions by now pushing to unionize Wal-Mart through the “Card Check Bill” will have the same effect of higher prices for the low and middle class shoppers.

Governments, unions and corporations GIVE you nothing. It is all earned, by your labor. By taking from one group to give to their support base is theft, pure and simple. I like to call the people that say, their union/company/government gives them “X” as suffering from “slave mentality”. Massah gonna give me stuff.

Read up on the 1911 - 1913 legislation that began the Fed and IRS. It was passed clandestinely.

#50

That’s not evidence, it’s just your opinion, delivered with the usual toxic asides about how everyone who doesn’t agree with you has “a slave mentality.” I already gave my opinions on unions–and they were just my opinions, not evidence of anything. And how many times do I have to tell you, the figures on the chart were adjusted for inflation. As inflation occurs, the figures for what counts as poverty change with it.

#51

What good is ANY adjustment for inflation, if a years salary buys an automobile in 1924 or 2009 or 2 minutes buys a loaf of bread then and now.

You measure in dollars which means NOTHING. It’s time for dollars we need to equate. I think a fair “living” wage is $65.00 an hour. Let’s raise the minimum wage to that level. Why not?

#52
Ralph Berg said:
Born and raised in the Detroit area. Left when I was 18 and only returned to visit when I had to. I remember the beautiful Aquarium on Belle Isle. I know they were talking about closing it........budget reasons. They also had a great zoo. Tiger Stadium was a great place to watch a ballgame. Greektown was full of wonderful restaurants. That's some of the good, the bad would take too long. Ralph
Ya, everything on Belle Isle was so cool back in the 60's and early 70's. But you should see it now. Very disgusting and visually assaulting to the senses. Tiger stadium is gone, it was torn down last year. Greektown was ok too when the GREEK's owned the restaurants and it was still real Greek food. A friend of our family designed Trappers Alley too. But again, long gone now.

Remember the train station? Man was it awesome. All the marble and chandeliers on the main floor were amazing. But now it’s stripped clean and the place is a dump. All the windows are broken out and the elements are slowly destroying what was once an artistic landmark and icon to the power of the American rail systems. I think the lower 3 or 4 floors are still under water too (they tried pumping them out a few years ago without success). I’m sure that isn’t doing the structure any good either.

Either way, it was and still is a dangerous place to be at any given time…

Jon.

#53
Jon Foster said:
Ralph Berg said:
Born and raised in the Detroit area. Left when I was 18 and only returned to visit when I had to. I remember the beautiful Aquarium on Belle Isle. I know they were talking about closing it........budget reasons. They also had a great zoo. Tiger Stadium was a great place to watch a ballgame. Greektown was full of wonderful restaurants. That's some of the good, the bad would take too long. Ralph
Ya, everything on Belle Isle was so cool back in the 60's and early 70's. But you should see it now. Very disgusting and visually assaulting to the senses. Tiger stadium is gone, it was torn down last year. Greektown was ok too when the GREEK's owned the restaurants and it was still real Greek food. A friend of our family designed Trappers Alley too. But again, long gone now.

Remember the train station? Man was it awesome. All the marble and chandeliers on the main floor were amazing. But now it’s stripped clean and the place is a dump. All the windows are broken out and the elements are slowly destroying what was once an artistic landmark and icon to the power of the American rail systems. I think the lower 3 or 4 floors are still under water too (they tried pumping them out a few years ago without success). I’m sure that isn’t doing the structure any good either.

Either way, it was and still is a dangerous place to be at any given time…

Jon.


The train station was very cool. Sad they let it go.
When I was around 10-12yrs old I used to ride my bike from 12 mile & Van Dyke down to the Detroit river on a regular basis.
Rode through a lot of wealthy neighborhoods as well as poor neighborhoods.
Ralph

#54

Jon why did you email me rhe same thing 19 times??? I never said any thing about the war on poverty.
Ed Devinney

#55

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward-Piven_Strategy

Cloward and Piven’s article is focused on forcing the Democratic party, which in 1966 controlled the presidency and both houses of congress, to take Federal action to help the poor. They argued that full enrollment of those eligible for wellfare “would produce bureaucratic disruption in welfare agencies and fiscal disruption in local and state governments” that would “deepen existing divisions among elements in the big-city Democratic coalition: the remaining white middle class, the white working-class ethnic groups and the growing minority poor. To avoid a further weakening of that historic coalition, a national Democratic administration would be constrained to advance a federal solution to poverty that would override local welfare failures, local class and racial conflicts and local revenue dilemmas.”[2] They wrote “the ultimate objective of this strategy (is) to wipe out poverty by establishing a guaranteed annual income… (via)the outright redistribution of income.

#56

What the hell? The failed strategy of two professors 50 years ago?

Tinfoil hat time again

#57

Some folks didn’t get the word it is a failed strategy. Cloward-Priven

#58
David Hill said:
Some folks didn't get the word it is a [b]failed[/b] strategy. [url=http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Cloward-Piven+Strategy&page=1&qsrc=121&ab=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanthinker.com%2F2008%2F09%2Fbarack_obama_and_the_strategy.html]Cloward-Priven[/url]
The link quotes Phil Gramm, whose bill deregulating the financial industry caused this mess we have today. No suprise he is trying to blame someone else. Ralph
#59

Ralph Berg why did I get a bunch of email with your name attached concerning “war on poverty”
My previous coment was to put it in plan english you guys ( you know you are ) were action closer to three
than adults. I have made no statement for or against any thing here this is worse thn the LBG discorse
in another thread. I have my flame retardant suit on now so go to it

Ed

#60
Ed DeVinney said:
Ralph Berg why did I get a bunch of email with your name attached concerning "war on poverty" My previous coment was to put it in plan english you guys ( you know you are ) were action closer to three than adults. I have made no statement for or against any thing here this is worse thn the LBG discorse in another thread. I have my flame retardant suit on now so go to it

Ed


I don’t know who you are and I did not e-mail you, sir.
Someone playing games.
Ralph