Large Scale Central

They're after our firearms, again

General Discussion
#281
David Hill said:
There is a catholic church and a Catholic Church. Lower case catholic means universal church, the believers as a whole. The FIRST Christian believers were actually Baptist. Peter was NOT the first pope.
David, who is this 'catholic church'? Peter was ordained by Jesus in the New Testament, "Simon, thou art Peter and upon this rock build my Church." Are you stating that either Jesus is a liar or the New Testament is wrong? John the Baptist was the son of Elizabeth who was a cousin to Mary. John the Baptist was known to baptise followers in the name of God, during the ministry of Jesus and showed homage to Jesus when he met him.

Baptists: "Baptists are typically considered Protestants. Some Baptists reject that association (see Origins and Questions of labeling subsections below). Most Baptist churches choose to associate with denominational groups that provide support without control. The largest Baptist association is the Southern Baptist Convention but there are many other baptist associations.

Both Roger Williams and his compatriot in working for religious freedom, Dr. John Clarke, are variously credited as founding the earliest Baptist church in America.[2] In 1639, Williams established a Baptist church in Providence, Rhode Island, and Clarke began a Baptist church in Newport, Rhode Island. According to a Baptist historian who has researched the matter extensively, “There is much debate over the centuries as to whether the Providence or Newport church deserved the place of ‘first’ Baptist congregation in America.”

#282
TonyWalsham said:
BTW, did you know there are actually two types of Catholics. Roman and Orthodox. Do you know what the differences are?
David, reference (note that 'Eastern' denotes Orthodox) -

"
Autonomous particular Churches or Rites
There are 23 such autonomous Churches, one “Western” and 22 “Eastern”, a distinction by now more historical than geographical. The term sui iuris means, literally, “of their own law”, or self-governing. Although all of the particular Churches espouse the same beliefs and faith, their distinction lies in their varied expression of that faith through their traditions, disciplines, and Canon law. All 23 are in communion with the Pope in Rome.

For this kind of “particular Church” the 1983 Code of Canon Law uses the unambiguous phrase “autonomous ritual Church” (in Latin Ecclesia ritualis sui iuris). The 1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, which is instead concerned principally with what the Second Vatican Council called “particular Churches or rites”, has shortened this phrase to “autonomous Church” (in Latin, Ecclesia sui iuris), as in its canon 27: “A group of Christ’s faithful hierarchically linked in accordance with law and given express or tacit recognition by the supreme authority of the Church is in this Code called an autonomous Church.”

Communion between particular Churches has existed since the Apostles: “Among these manifold particular expressions of the saving presence of the one Church of Christ, there are to be found, from the times of the Apostles on, those entities which are in themselves Churches, because, although they are particular, the universal Church becomes present in them with all its essential elements.”

The Orthodox Churches were formed by the apostles of Christ, when he directed them to preach the word of God. Note that all “23 are in communion with the Pope in Rome.” Later churches, have no ties to Rome and are not considered part of the Catholic Church.

#283
Tim Brien said:
David Hill said:
There is a catholic church and a Catholic Church. Lower case catholic means universal church, the believers as a whole. The FIRST Christian believers were actually Baptist. Peter was NOT the first pope.
David, who is this 'catholic church'? Peter was ordained by Jesus in the New Testament, "Simon, thou art Peter and upon this rock build my Church." Are you stating that either Jesus is a liar or the New Testament is wrong? John the Baptist was the son of Elizabeth who was a cousin to Mary. John the Baptist was known to baptise followers in the name of God, during the ministry of Jesus and showed homage to Jesus when he met him.

Baptists: "Baptists are typically considered Protestants. Some Baptists reject that association (see Origins and Questions of labeling subsections below). Most Baptist churches choose to associate with denominational groups that provide support without control. The largest Baptist association is the Southern Baptist Convention but there are many other baptist associations.

Both Roger Williams and his compatriot in working for religious freedom, Dr. John Clarke, are variously credited as founding the earliest Baptist church in America.[2] In 1639, Williams established a Baptist church in Providence, Rhode Island, and Clarke began a Baptist church in Newport, Rhode Island. According to a Baptist historian who has researched the matter extensively, “There is much debate over the centuries as to whether the Providence or Newport church deserved the place of ‘first’ Baptist congregation in America.”


Taken from the book entitled, “Why I am a Baptist” by C. Larkin

Almost all the Anti-papist denominations date, either directly or indirectly, from the Reformation of the sixteenth century. The Protestant Episcopal, Lutheran, and Presbyterian Churches, came from the Roman Catholic Church, and the Methodist Episcopal Church came from the Protestant Episcopal Church.

The Baptists, however, do not date from the Reformation. Though Anti-papists, they are not, in the technical and historical sense of the word, “Protestants,”

READ MORE: HERE

#284
David Hill said:
The Baptists, however, do not date from the Reformation. Though Anti-papists, they are not, in the technical and historical sense of the word, "Protestants,"...
David, for your interest -

"Some Baptists object to the application of the labels Protestant, denomination, Evangelical and even Baptist to themselves or their churches, while others accept those labels.

Some who reject the label Baptist prefer to be labeled as Christians who attend Baptist churches. Also, a recent trend (most common among megachurches and those embracing the “seeker movement”) is to eliminate “Baptist” from the church name, as it is perceived to be a “barrier” to reaching persons who have negative views of Baptists, whether they be of a different church background or none. These churches typically include the word “Community” or other non-religious or denominational terms in their church name.

Conversely, others accept the label Baptist because they identify with the distinctives they consider to be uniquely Baptist. They believe those who are removing the name “Baptist” from their churches are “compromising with the world” to attract more members. However, there are other church groups that hold to the beliefs listed above, that have never been known by the label Baptist, and also believe that these beliefs are not exclusive to the Baptist denomination."

As I stated in a previous posting, some like to follow ‘designer’ religions, adapting god to their needs.

#285

Tim,
Nice to see I could provide you with something you could use.
You have shown your first sign of a sense of humor.
Ralph

#286
TonyWalsham said:
Steve.

What a long bow you draw.

David contradicts you there when he says to be a Christian you have to accept Christ. Not be born to it or merely have it in your heritage.


Then I guess you agree Hitler was not a Christian.

#287

David, I’d be interested in your take on why some Roman Catholics are not Christian.

#288

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#289

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#290

Catholics are not Christians? Some are and some are not?

This is going to go over VERY well back at Mary Mother of the Redeemer back home.

For a lot of people, religion seems to be mostly about the pleasure of thinking you are in a lifeboat while others are drowning.

#291
mike omalley said:
For a lot of people, religion seems to be mostly about the pleasure of thinking you are in a lifeboat while others are drowning.
Is this not how life is Mike? I am right, you are wrong and neither is willing to concede the possibility they are wrong? Why would you expect religion to be any different. Not to pick on Tony.........but he is a perfect example. He places the burden of proof on the opposition, feeling no need to prove his view. He is not alone. Most people feel this way. Ralph
#292
Tim Brien said:
David, Australians are any person who take Australian citizenship. We place no importance on natural born. We are a successful multi-cultural country and proud of our Indigenous, Anglo and ethnic cultures. Any person who is naturalised or 'natural born' is able to lead our country as the chosen leader of his political party. Being natural born or naturalised has absolutely nothing to do with the religion that one follows. All cultures are able to practice their own faith without hindrance. Our Parliament uses the Westminster System which dissociates church from state.
I am sorry, I did not make my point clear. Your use of the lower case "c" when referring to Christians, those that follow Christ's (meaning king) teachings is incorrect as the noun is a proper noun and by rules of proper English, it should be in upper case. Unless your deliberate use of lower case is an attempt to somehow minimize or disparage Christians as a whole. All that and one dollar US will buy you a cup of coffee, I didn't take offense, I only noticed your apparent bias.
#293
Tim Brien said:
David Hill said:
There is a catholic church and a Catholic Church. Lower case catholic means universal church, the believers as a whole. The FIRST Christian believers were actually Baptist. Peter was NOT the first pope.
David, who is this 'catholic church'? Peter was ordained by Jesus in the New Testament, "Simon, thou art Peter and upon this rock build my Church." Are you stating that either Jesus is a liar or the New Testament is wrong? John the Baptist was the son of Elizabeth who was a cousin to Mary. John the Baptist was known to baptise followers in the name of God, during the ministry of Jesus and showed homage to Jesus when he met him.

Baptists: "Baptists are typically considered Protestants. Some Baptists reject that association (see Origins and Questions of labeling subsections below). Most Baptist churches choose to associate with denominational groups that provide support without control. The largest Baptist association is the Southern Baptist Convention but there are many other baptist associations.

Both Roger Williams and his compatriot in working for religious freedom, Dr. John Clarke, are variously credited as founding the earliest Baptist church in America.[2] In 1639, Williams established a Baptist church in Providence, Rhode Island, and Clarke began a Baptist church in Newport, Rhode Island. According to a Baptist historian who has researched the matter extensively, “There is much debate over the centuries as to whether the Providence or Newport church deserved the place of ‘first’ Baptist congregation in America.”


The “catholic church” reference is from Christians universally accepted “Profession Of Faith”

I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: By the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. I believe in the one holy catholic and apostolic church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

#294

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#295

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#296
Steve Featherkile said:
David, I'd be interested in your take on why some Roman Catholics are not Christian.
The Bible John: Chapter 1

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicode’mus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John:3

16 ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The term “born again” has a specific meaning to Christians. Some individuals in and outside of ANY organized religion do not meet the standard God has set.

Revelations 3:

15 ¶ I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

#297

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#298

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/lastmanout/_forumfiles/popcorn.gif)

#299

David, by that standard, some Evangelicals and Pentecostals and even SDA’s are not Christian.

#300
Steve Featherkile said:
David, by that standard, some Evangelicals and Pentecostals and even SDA's are not Christian.
Those are all titles for a "club membership". True Christianity is a change of heart, mind and spirit, which is why the Dingo-bat's assertion of AH being a Christian is so absurd.