Large Scale Central

The Redmond & Rixey Shortline RR:

General Discussion
#21

Michael,

It always seems to me that if you have constant sidings off your single track mainline, you really have a double track main. I’d keep that second passing siding in mind, but wait until you get track layed and see if you can do switching and maneuvering without it. Years ago, CSX or it predicessor had a long siding in Carlyle. There was a wreck that tore out a major road crossing. The track was quickly relaid to get traffic moving. The siding was just shortened and Carlyle became a not so major passing siding. Railroads never build until they have a good reason. They also put tracks down, pull them out and rework them to meet their current needs. No railroad is ever complete, it is just in its current operating format. :wink:

#22

Ric,

Ok, you talked me into it…I’ll keep just the one mainline at the “narrows”. i’m still (and I have no reservations stating it) a newbie where the railroading part of this is concerned, so I hope some of you don’t mind me leaning on your experiences and suggestions and using what will work here.

I’m kind of excited for tomorrow to get here so I can start working on the raised garden…going to build one to start and see just how we like it after its’ built, then go from there.

One quick question Ric. Do you solder or attach joiners to multiple points along your powered loop? I’m considering buying a handful of the hilman clamps that have the electrical connections available to them, and use them sparingly along the line.

I’m also going to find a good track cleaning car, either through purchase or build one, so I can clean the track that way instead of manually, at least for general cleanings.

Michael

#23

My track powered rail outside is either soldered or clamped with Hillman, San Val or Split jaw railclamps. Originally, it was all soldered, but as a joint has broken I’ve clamped it back together. I don’t run track power that often. People that do will give you better advice.

#24

Hey Ric, why am I not surprised you have a lighthouse on your front lawn…:wink:

#25

Ric,

The question was posed so I’ll ask because I’m not sure. When the train leaves the main loop and ventures down the “narrows” towards the wye, turns left (west) and goes into the reverse loop and back, is that something that will require constant attention during a run to make sure the turnouts get switched to the correct side? If so, that might put a damper on the holiday runs?

Also, when I come back from the reverse loop, wye, and back through the narrows onto the loop, with the train going south, I won’t have a way to connect back off the loop to the “narrows” main…the train would have to run backwards on it to the wye. Would that give any credence to making two entrances to the narrows from both directions? Or would that be one of the “gray matter” tricks for the railroad?

Your thoughts when you have time.

#26

Michael,

I think “Holiday Runs” that are unattended would be on the circle only. The reverese loop and wye are for more sophisticated, concentrating runs. You’ve got to hold some type of surprize back. :wink: Try to always use the KISS principle.

#27
Ric Golding said:
Michael,

I think “Holiday Runs” that are unattended would be on the circle only. The reverese loop and wye are for more sophisticated, concentrating runs. You’ve got to hold some type of surprize back. :wink: Try to always use the KISS principle.


I could understand that, thanks Ric. So, what about the problem of when the train traverses the wye, the reverse loop, then heads back to the main loop…it will be going counter clockwise, and won’t have a way to get back onto the “narrows” straight unless it backs up to the wye…

another operational opportunity? Or something to consider?

#28

Ok, it’s late, I’m sore, tired, and about to hit the rack. I did have one question that somehow popped into my head after reading some of Jon Radders? thread about his expansion.

I have a 35 year old pinoak in my front yard. The trunk at ground level is about 4ft in diameter.

Would it be possible to dig/cut/chainsaw/bore/drill a tunnel through the base of the trunk of this tree without doing serious damage to it?

Anyone? yeah I know it’s probably never going to happen, but sometimes I like to think about “what if”…?

Thanks, and good night.

michael

#29

Michael,

Good Morning.

You said - "I could understand that, thanks Ric. So, what about the problem of when the train traverses the wye, the reverse loop, then heads back to the main loop…it will be going counter clockwise, and won’t have a way to get back onto the “narrows” straight unless it backs up to the wye…

another operational opportunity? Or something to consider?"

Yes, back to the wye or create another wye off the loop, all thoughts of future expansion.

As far as trees go, you’ll have to get advise from somebody else. My bride says I could kill a rock, so I can’t touch anything that is green without constant supervision.

#30

As a former lunberjack / arborist. Have to consider that while yes it could be done and a oak is a hearty tree the thought of cutting a 12 X 6 inch tunnel through a live tree center and allowing insects and diesese a open path to kill the tree would seam unthinkable to a none garden railroader it make perfect sence to me. The tree could survive the stress with carefull care . I have seen trees with nothing but a outer 4-6 inchs of fiber suporting the masive top the inside was compleately gone you could have stood up inside of the hollowed out area, and the tree still bloomed every year. as long as your tree wont crush your house or cars I would say that it is plausiable. I would explain to your arborist your intentions and have the tree cut back to redeuce the stress on the trunk.

#31

Don,

Thanks for the info. I seriously doubt that will happen, but was one of the things brought up when we were discussing things about the layout.

I’m moving a little slower this morning, back is a tad on the tight side, but should be out and going in a little bit, after b’fast. I want to put one more course on the first garden planter, but will take the second course off first and start mortaring the stones in place. My plans are to make the plant ring around 24" tall. Haven’t fully decided yet to build the inner ring. I’ll decide on that when I have the first ring finished. Then if there is time, I will start tearing the brick planter garden down to build the second ring in its’ place.

#32

So while I’m out in the yard sweating my arse off, any of you guys that still run powered tracks, take a look at the diagram on the first page, and give me some of your thoughts as to the best ways to hook the tracks up when I start laying them down.

I’m going to get a handful of Hilman clamps with the electrical connectors on them to help connect feeders along the line. I’m considering burying and running a main (14g) feeder, and using that to splice the smaller feeders to the track. Last night we talked about drilling a small hole through the outside wall to install an electrical box (GFCI of course) to install outlets for the DC and AC connections, and to splice plugs into the wiring coming from the track for easier connections. We would be able to mount the boxes directly on the house, silicone and weather protected, and have easy connecting point to the Train Engineer that will sit in the hobby room.

I’ll check in later when I take a break from the mortaring.

#33

10 Gauge main feed… 12 would probably be ok, but for a few cents more 10 is worth it, one place you won’t have voltage loss. Do not use the 14.

If you loop it around the track, do NOT cut it to attach the feeder wires to the track, strip off the insulation, wrap the feeder around the stripped section, insulate with that liquid rubber stuff at home depot (used for insulating tool handles as well as electrical connections).

Regards, Greg

#34

Greg Elmassian said:
10 Gauge main feed… 12 would probably be ok, but for a few cents more 10 is worth it, one place you won’t have voltage loss. Do not use the 14. If you loop it around the track, do NOT cut it to attach the feeder wires to the track, strip off the insulation, wrap the feeder around the stripped section, insulate with that liquid rubber stuff at home depot (used for insulating tool handles as well as electrical connections). Regards, Greg

Thanks Greg, I appreciate the time and the advice. Do you run your main feed under the ballast? Along side? Do you put it in conduit of any kind? Did the pax cars make it in the mail yet? When you wrap the feeder around the main, do you crimp it in any way, or just make a tight wrap? Well time for an update. I called it quits at 5:10 this afternoon…I had had enough…lol. But I was able to get the first raised stone planter garden ring somewhat finished. A few modifications to the original plan, but I think it’s worked out ok. The CEO (yes, that’s the Mrs.) thought it would look nice with a small pond in the middle, so instead of the inner ring, we now have a small pond. I built the ring 18" from the main garden wall, which will emphasize “The Narrows” that the trains will run through…should be an interesting point for train watching. The CEO also wanted to try the black dyed mulch, just to see what it looks like. I think against the stones it doesn’t look too bad, and when the plants are installed, it should look nice agains the greenery. Plants, didn’t put any in yet. It’s too hot to transplant…it’s too hot and late in the season to plant…so I’m going to wait a bit, give the 3 cubic yards of soil time to settle, let the rocks get used to the weight of the soil, and come early fall I’ll put in some nice fall/winter annuals, and bulbs, iris’, maybe a couple elephant ears, and then in spring, bunches of color. We’re considering a Japanese Maple to drape over the pond, but that will be spring definitely. Picture five shows a nice shot of the narrows. Picture three shows the start of the retaining wall that will divide the lawn and the garden/railroad in front.

I’d definitely call it a successful weekend!! Even though I used more stone than I thought I would, but that just means I’ll have to get another load or two before next weekend so I can start on the second garden ring planter. michael

#35

I’m not sure what all the fuss is about multiple feeders. I use garden low voltage lighting wire. One feed attached for each loop. 250+ feet per loop. Have never seen a speed decrease or any sign of voltage drop anywhere on the layout.

This isn’t HO. The wire we use and the cross section of our track really eliminate the need for multiple feeds, unless you are doing blocks

Andre’

#36

Don’t know if you are running SS rail or not, but it’s about 10 times the resistance of brass.

The current requirements of our locos are pretty high, get a few running at a time, and a single feeder won’t do it, or a heavy load. If you will NEVER run more than one loco at a time, NEVER doublehead steam, NEVER MU diesels you could try one feed.

But while it’s convenient, why not do it bulletproof for all time, rather than run the risk of re-doing it.

Do you run your main feed under the ballast? Along side?
Definitely run it alongside, you don’t want to be in the position to have to rip up track to get to the wire.

Do you put it in conduit of any kind?
Most people do not, I had the conduit laid when the back yard was landscaped. This way I can use 10 gauge with thin insulation rather than the thick 12 gauge landscape wire. I used 3/4 conduit and it’s wonderful, can pull additional wires or change it out whenever.

Did the pax cars make it in the mail yet?

No, sorry, but they are in my office, will try to ship Tuesday, will be in Palm Springs tomorrow. Keep reminding me!

When you wrap the feeder around the main, do you crimp it in any way, or just make a tight wrap?

I have run all point to point wiring, i.e. there are about 6 pairs of wires that all come back to the power supply. A lot more wire, but I’m going to be running up to 6 locos MU’d together and more than one train per loop.

In your case, run the 10 gauge like a buss, when you get where you want to feed the track, strip about 1 inch of insulation from the buss wire, without nicking or cutting the copper. Then strip your feeder wire (which, of course could be 14 gauge) and wrap one end around the buss. This way you get lots of electrical contact and a good mechanical connection. Solder and insulate.

The big key is to keep your buss wire one continuous wire, unbroken. A bad connection or a break in the copper, even if soldered back together can add resistance. A half ohm of resistance at 5 amp draw is 2.5 volts lost, and that can be noticable in speed.

I know a lot of people out there run one feeder and 10,000 feet of track, but for every person that can do this, there are 10 it is not good enough for. It’s just like the track cleaning issue. There are individuals who have very little trouble with brass rail, but for each one, there are 10 who have the sanding pole out every session. This is the foundation of your layout if you are track powered, I would recommend against cutting corners.

Regards, Greg

#37

Greg,

Thanks for the detail in the advice…I’ll print that out and put with my growing stack of “to-do’s and not to-do’s”.

Got up and took the Mrs. to the airport this morning (she’s going to N.M. to see her mom, aunt, and sister) and looked at the new raised garden. The Gnome was glowing and I could hear the water from the fountain hitting the topwater. Looked pretty cool in the early morning darkness!

#38

“Looked pretty cool in the early morning darkness!”

There you go. Now the rest is just tweaking and improvements.

#39

Well, not much to report today. I’ve been nursing a sore back, so haven’t done much of anything other than going to work and back. Hopefully it’ll start feeling better tomorrow or Thursday.

But the garden still looks good and the Gnome is still lighting and the water is still bubbling, so that’s all good.

michael