It is an option Bob, but I think a last resort. I really dont think the railroad museum wants to create tension between them and the museum. I’m looking at going a more diplomatic route and try some pressure from other areas. Crazy Horse is a great operation, but railroading is not in their scope of interest. I think we can start to appeal to that sense and go from their.
Cute little loco. Never heard of a loco being a hero before, but it fits. Hope you guys manage to get her saved.
Jake, I never said it was a pretty option. Diplomacy is always the better path, but sometimes brute force is what is called for. If she sits too long, the current owner may just consider the scrapper’s torch. Last time I did some recycling, I got $0.12 per pound for scrap steel. At that rate she would be worth a few dollars.
My more than a tuppence.
Bob C.
Jake Smith said:Rename the daughter ...
... promised one of his daughters that he would repaint the loco and name it after her. The problem is, CHM has said they will donate the loco but they want it repainted and name after the daughter. To the museum that is not acceptable, ...
I hope they find some way out of this nonsense.
That really stinks (about the naming thing). I wonder if maybe they didn’t put a time constraint in the transfer documents, the new museum could paint it for the daughter and leave it just long enough for the CH Museum folks to see it, then make the decision to properly restore it to it’s original name.
I was talking with the SD railroad museum administrator on Saturday and it will most likely be a slow process. We have to tread lightly in order to not cause any hard feelings. It seems as though we have half the family on our side and half on the other. But, there is a museum board member who is connected to the CHM who is working very hard to persuade them.
But, with all this happening I plan to build the Natalie starting with a Bachmann Porter and donate it to the museum. At least the museum will have something.
I have to say one thing. It is really critical that the Natalie get restored. Unlike most narrow gauge systems. The Natalie is one of only two narrow gauge locomotives know to exist, that operated on the Black Hills narrow gauge system. Incidentally, the other one is the JB Haggin, stored in the Adams Musuem in Deadwood, SD.
Jake Smith said:Jake,
I have to say one thing. It is really critical that the Natalie get restored. Unlike most narrow gauge systems. The Natalie is one of only two narrow gauge locomotives know to exist, that operated on the Black Hills narrow gauge system. Incidentally, the other one is the JB Haggin, stored in the Adams Musuem in Deadwood, SD.
I agree the locomotive deserves to be retored and preserved. I suggest you contact the SD State Historic Preservation office and ask to speak to someone in the SHPO office (State Historic Preservation Officer).
http://history.sd.gov/preservation/
Those folks are the best avenue for preservation funds/grant money to help with the restoration of the locomotive. Prerequisite to a grant application is that the owners permission must be obtained to place the loco of the SD State historic register. The most important thing for everyone to remember is the owners DO NOT have to relinquish ownership.
In Colorado (where I live) a percentage of the funds from the sale of lottery tickets and taxes from the gambling casinos are earmark specfically for historic perservation which is named GOCO - Go Colorado). The SD SHPO will be of great help I’m sure, but they don’t start the nomination process. Someone like you that shows an interest and is willing to put the time and effort to writing a nomination are usually the ‘sponsors’.
As you might have guessed, yes I have completed a historic registry nomination. It’s not as hard as one might think AND the SHPO will be there to help every step of the way.
Good Luck. If you want to email me back channel, I’ll be happy to help and answer questions.
Go the B&O Museum’s AFT, CSS T-1 route… paint one side each way… but they you’d have to remember which side needs to face which group’s cameras 
Thanks for the info Jerry. That has been started by the SDRM (SD Railroad Museum). Like I said it is a delicate process. The SDRM doesnt want any animosity with Crazy Horse. Unfortunately this will be a slow process.
You’re welcome Jake. 
Always happy to help someone interested in preserving this country’s wonderful railroad heritage - narrow gauge or standard gauge. At this point, all you can do is hope there is a favorable change to the impasse. There have been some similar incidents regarding privately owned historic Denver & Rio Grande narrow gauge equipment here in Colorado. Life’s circumstances have a way of changing those relationships… Today some of that equipment lives at various locations around Colorado - like the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO; The Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad in CO and NM; Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad and others.
Sounds like you are engaged with some of the parties and have the locomotive’s welfare in best interest. Best of luck with your continued efforts.
Jerry
Jake, did you ever finish your model of this loco?
That is a neat little loco and cool story. I hope they manage to save it and put it on display even if it is named after the daughter, a nearby placque will straighten out the visitors as to the real history and name of Natalie.
Here is the one up at Loon in New Hampshire that I mentioned before. Maybe it will help serve to get Jake going on his model of Natalie.
That is a neat little loco and cool story. I hope they manage to save it and put it on display even if it is named after the daughter, a nearby placque will straighten out the visitors as to the real history and name of Natalie.
Here is the one up at Loon in New Hampshire that I mentioned before. Maybe it will help serve to get Jake going on his model of Natalie.
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It would be a good thing for Natalie to be restored and kept in an accessible place for all to see. I can appreciate the naming issues. Daughters are especial to most fathers so I can see his point of view. Todd males a valid point about a information plaque: that could be one way over an impasse. I and I guess most folks reading this thread will wish to hear, eventually, of a satisfactory outcome.
Not much has moved on the Natalie.
The new wrench in the works is Crazy Horse has insisted that the loco remain their property. And if they so choose can reclaim it without any warning or otherwise. This causes a big problem for restoration efforts. Our best estimates are anywhere from $100,000 to $250,000 to do just partial restoration. If we were to sink that kind of money into the Natalie only to have her taken away to be allowed to rot again, it just doesn’t work.
I visited the loco this summer to get a look at what shape she is in. Well its not great but workable. The initial goal is to get her in presentable shape. That probably means a new cab. In the pics I presented there was a tarp draped over the top of the cab. Well that has blown away or worn away and so the wood is more exposed to the elements. Most of the wood is in a rotted state. Next is a DuPont overhaul. After that she is in displayable shape.
Long term is operating shape. This is a much bigger project. As I inspected her I tried to take note of bearings and such to determine what shape they are in. I am not a machinist so I am no expert. My only experience is working on farm equipment at the family ranch. But, from what I could tell there will have a lot of work on the bearings and stuff. As there should be, the engine hasn’t moved from its spot since late 1970s. Then there is the boiler. I don’t believe she has been fired since she was put into storage in Gelena in the 1930s. Again, I’m not an expert in boilers so we shall see.
The great thing is there is a good shop the museum has access to. The Black Hills Central is next door and they have experienced hands who know how to restore a steam engine (as they did with all their roster of steam engines) and have the tools to do so.
I haven’t talked to the museum in a couple months, since I have been busy, but progress is slow.
As for the model, well, that is sitting on the shelf waiting for me. I have had other projects pushed in front of the line and my priorities have shifted. I need more buildings on the layout. From my expedition, I know that the Natalie is a standard 0-4-0T Porter. There is really nothing special about her. It makes sense, The Branch Mint Mine was never a money maker so they wouldn’t spend unnecessary funds for extra stuff.
Jake,
Back in the late 60’s I was stationed at Ellsworth AFB and living in Rapid City. I was visiting the Adams Museum in Deadwood one day looking at old railroad photos in their collection. A little old gray-haired lady came up to me and asked if I liked trains. I told her yes, and especially narrow gauge ones. She said, “follow me,” and led me to an amazing collection of old photos that she had collected for a book she wrote titled “Railroads of the Black Hills.” Her name was Mildred Fielder. Here are a few of the photos she shared with me. All are of the Natalie. By the way, I still have the autographed copy of the book she gave me. It is a bit water stained from the big 1972 flood, but it is still one of my favorites.
Bob Hyman
Great pics! I’ll have to buy that book one of these days – I see they’re available on Amazon for around $20.
Too bad about the Natalie. I don’t understand why people would prefer to just let something historic rot rather than give it up to be restored.
What a fortunate meeting Bob. Mildred’s book is the foremost when it comes to narrow gauge operations in the Black Hills. I have the book also and have paged through it several times.
I wish I knew the answer to that question Ray. It really vexes me also.
Jake and Ray, the unfortunate answer is “Because they can”.
Sorry for being so late to the conversation here. Hopefully some of you remember this thread. I have always liked this style locomotive and was so impressed with the history as well as saddened to hear of of her condition that I decided to reach out to the memorial to learn more and to see if any progress had been made. I was put in touch with Marguerite Cullum the librarian ([email protected]) and received the following correspondence:
“Good afternoon, MJ
I have attached the page from our Progress publication from September 6, 1983 which covered the arrival of the Natalie at Crazy Horse Memorial.
The plaque on Natalie’s boiler plate says the manufacture was: H. K. Porter Company Pittsburg U.S.A. No. 3418 1906.
The Natalie still sits under cover on the complex. It was used originally less than two years pulling ore cars at Galena, a silver mining boom town near Deadwood and Lead, South Dakota in the northern Black Hills. It went into storage when the Branch Mint Mining Company went broke in 1908. It was deemed to be the most original stock Porter steam locomotive around.
Sincerely
Marguerite Cullum”
I think you will find the article she sent me very enlightening. It’s to bad that a deal couldn’t be struck to get the train restored and operable at the memorial while at the same time protecting it’s name and authenticity. The news publication indicates that this was Korczak’s original dream when he acquired the Natalie from Roger L Frick of California. That was in 1982. He passed away shortly after the purchase and unfortunately never got to see the locomotive he had admired for over 30 years and was finally able to purchase delivered to the Memorial.