Craig Townsend said:
Dave Marconi said:
Are you referencing the bridge road over the rear of the train Steve or the trestle halfway up the mountain as I was referring to ?
I could be wrong, but I think the bridge over the rear of the train, near the river is the NP main. The highway is up on the mountain.
Craig, I don’t think that the NP ever went up the Columbia River Gorge. That was SP&S territory.
OK so how did NP reach Portland then. I honestly don’t know. I would have to look at a map but their charter specifically called for a line from the great lakes to the Puget Sound with a branch to Portland. Did they go to the Puget Sound then down the coast. Now I have to look at a map.
Ok so according to my map which I don’t have a date on but I believe to be from 1897 and was a promotional piece included in their railway guide the line splits at Ainsworth Washington and one goes to Tacoma and the other down the gorge to Portland. looks like on the north side of the river.
There was a proposal to build the NP along the north bank of the Columbia River, but the NP was outmaneuvered by Colonel Ainsworth of the Oregon Steam Navigation Company. Click here for the rest of the story. The NP was forced to hurriedly build over the Stampede Pass, and share a line with GN and UP from Tacoma to Portland, through Vancouver.
GN maps show the same connection to Vancouver, via the Columbia Gorge. SP&S was jointly owned by the GN and the NP.
Sounds good to me. Like I said I had no idea. I just knew they wanted to go there and did go there I just wasn’t how they go there.
Steve Featherkile said:
Craig, I don’t think that the NP ever went up the Columbia River Gorge. That was SP&S territory.
I was thinking about between Pasco & Spokane, where the NP & SP&S both ran alongside each other, not West of Pasco. I thought Cape Horn was closer to Pasco, but it’s closer to Vancouver. BN’s short sideness removed the SP&S line, but kept the NP line…
I never understood why the BN abandoned the SP&S between Spokane and Pasco. I was told once that the SP&S frequently flooded along that route, Spokane to Pasco, that might have something to do with it.
Steve Featherkile said:
I never understood why the BN abandoned the SP&S between Spokane and Pasco. I was told once that the SP&S frequently flooded along that route, Spokane to Pasco, that might have something to do with it.
Everything I’ve read/heard about the route was that BN figured the SP&S route had a higher maintenance cost than the NP route because of the number of bridges. Despite the fact that the SP&S route was a lower ruling grade, and less curvature. But, think about the timeframe that BN let go of the line; I think that the economy, railroad regulations, competition from the MILW & UP, and the new BN management couldn’t think beyond a few years. Now BNSF is struggling to ‘double track’ this area. BNSF keeps extending the length of sidings and shortening the distance between sidings…
Craig Townsend said:
David Maynard said:
Craig, maybe they didn’t, but maybe, just maybe, in a time of horsepower shortage, your branch-line was able to lease one. Short term of course.
SP&S was part of the CB&Q, GN & NP merger that created BN, so technically any former SP&S loco was now available for BN service. The problem was other than SP&S ownership very few Alco’s existed across the system. The few that were not SP&S got shipped out west to be home shopped in Vancouver, where SP&S had lots of experience working on the Alco’s. BN tried to keep the Alco’s on the main from Vancouver, Wa to Spokane (former SP&S & NP rails), but I’ve found a few instances of Alco’s creeping north towards Seattle. However, that said, it’s unlikely that BN would have taken Alco’s off the regular run to work BN’s lowly branchline that normally got GP7’s and F units…
Craig, oh, ok, fine be that way. You were saying you wanted an excuse, and I was trying to give you one. When I was a child, the line behind my house was Penn Central F unit territory. Almost every train that went by was pulled by a set (pair or more) of grungy PC F units. But I did see, on rare occasion, other power on the line. A PC GP or SD, and once I saw an NW GP or SD.
So, if the dispatcher needs to send more power that way, he will grab whatever he can lay his hands on. And just maybe it would have been one of them ALCOs.
Its your railroad, Craig. If you want an ALCo or two, make it so.
Craig Townsend said:
Steve Featherkile said:
I never understood why the BN abandoned the SP&S between Spokane and Pasco. I was told once that the SP&S frequently flooded along that route, Spokane to Pasco, that might have something to do with it.
Everything I’ve read/heard about the route was that BN figured the SP&S route had a higher maintenance cost than the NP route because of the number of bridges. Despite the fact that the SP&S route was a lower ruling grade, and less curvature. But, think about the timeframe that BN let go of the line; I think that the economy, railroad regulations, competition from the MILW & UP, and the new BN management couldn’t think beyond a few years. Now BNSF is struggling to ‘double track’ this area. BNSF keeps extending the length of sidings and shortening the distance between sidings…
Never underestimate the shortsidedness of the Suits, especially the ones who are not rails. Do you know if that section of the old SP&S was abandoned, or railbanked?
I think it was railbanked, but I’m not 100% positive. I think that all of the bridges are still standing?
Steve Featherkile said:
Its your railroad, Craig. If you want an ALCo or two, make it so.
Aye Capitan.
Ah, but as Steve has said in the past, I’m the modeler that models a specific rust pattern on a specific locomotive, on a specific subdivision, on a specific track at a specific time… I’ll proudly lay claim to that ‘anal retentive’ type of modeling as it limits my purchasing ability! As much as I like the looks of an Alco unit in SP&S colors, I doubt that I’ll ever purchase one. That is until I find evidence that one ran on the subdivision I’m modeling! A few years back I was thinking about buying a SD40-2, but justified not buying one because they didn’t run over my subdivision, and then behold I found a photograph of a MILW SD40-2 running a regularly scheduled train with all SD40-2’s… So I’m not saying it won’t happen, but the chances are slim!