They couldn’t print it if it wasn’t true!
Craig Townsend said:
Internet research only leads one to a certain point.
For instance from the internet I know that a majority of (I’d guess in the 80-90%) Northern Pacific records are held in two general collections; a smaller collection in Missoula, Mt and a larger one in St. Paul, MN. A google search is useless in finding documents on the MNHS website, instead you have to search the MNHS finding aids to see general topics. Then one must visit the physical archives to dig even deeper. Proper research takes time and work! I spend a week at the MNHS archive simply photographing and quickly reading documents and I barely touched the surface of what I’m researching. After leaving the archive and really reading the sources, one tends to discover that yet another document or path exists… It’s an endless cycle.
Correct! But apart from the work it is a lot of fun. (http://rhb-grischun.ca/phpBB3/images/smilies/3.gif)
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Correct! But apart from the work it is a lot of fun. (http://rhb-grischun.ca/phpBB3/images/smilies/3.gif)
Work? Humm, there’s a reason my MA thesis was on a topic I was interested in, and not just a randomly assigned topic. Sure makes the research that much easier. I just happened to spend a little bit of time researching stuff for the model railroad when I was back there… Documents like a full set of engineering drawings for a GN Snow Dozer aren’t likely to be found ‘online’.
I filled up a 8 gb SD card twice with pictures of documents. Now I just have to find the time to read them. My wife keeps telling me I’ll be writing a book about the same topic in the future. That would require much more research, and maybe a trip to the National Archives in Washington, DC. Oh darn.
Soooooo … it’s resolved! The way to go is: even for mundane stuff it’s easier to pose a question in ABC or XYZ fora and let someone else do the work than use what’s at hand (computer with Internet) and a bit of savvy.
OK got it! 
I cannot speak for anyone else up in here, but I have conducted research as far as history and science is concerned and what I find disturbing is how some people just look something up in Wikipedia and right away, they think that is all there is to it.
Peer reviewed means Peer reviewed. Anything less cannot be taken with a grain of salt.
As far as railroading is concerned. Historically speaking, there is a plethora of information regarding our railroads here in the states. Getting to it sometimes requires allot of effort. Which is well worth it, if one is interested in facts.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Soooooo … it’s resolved! The way to go is: even for mundane stuff it’s easier to pose a question in ABC or XYZ fora and let someone else do the work than use what’s at hand (computer with Internet) and a bit of savvy.
OK got it!
Hans, no, not in my case. For example, I wanted to know a realistic weight and capacity for a wooden narrow gauge flatcar. After a least 2 nights of searching with Bing, in different iterations of the question, I asked here for the answer. During my web search I found HO, HOn3, On30 and Sn2 flatcars, added more photos to my files of prototype photos, became momentarily sidetracked with many other diversions, and lost 2 evenings.
So I gave up and asked for help here. So, yea, maybe I let someone else do the work, but not because I didn’t want to put forth the effort, I put forth effort and came up with…why did I save that on my computer?
The very point of this forum…I thought…was for men and women to get together in one place and share ideas about a hobby that has grown to be one of the most beloved hobbies of all time. To share information, technology and discuss every aspect of trains in scale as well as reality.
The computer was never meant to take the place of bona fide real research and there are many in here that know a great deal about this hobby. Enough that I would trust them or their judgment regarding issues dealing with trains in scale.
The threads author is no doubt very intelligent. The very reason why someone might ask him for information versus looking it up themselves might simply be because they trust him.
I am sure he will say to me that I should trust his judgment about our conversations regarding electricity and those pantographs and the truth is: He is right and I was wrong.
This is as close to an apology to the threads author as I can come up with.
Maybe he will accept it.
Stacy
Clearly the forum exists to share information.
But when someone won’t do the least bit themselves to try for themselves, it can get irritating, read what HJ said…
he did not say ANY requests, but for mundane requests…
Things like the umteenth question about battery vs. track power, or brass rail vs another metal, etc.
Read carefully to get the point, and taking a specific clearly defined case to mean every case, then you will get his meaning.
Regards, Greg
Well Greg, many guys ask allot of questions because they feel comfortable doing so. It isn’t that they are trying to be annoying by not doing the work, but rather they trust the person they are speaking with.
As for the those mundane request, well that can be annoying and I would agree that Hans, for example, is not necessarily here for doing every little bit of someone else’s work. None of us are. Lack of confidence in ones own abilities can breed this idea, if you will, that one always rely on someone else for everything.
In short, I agree with you Greg, but hope you and others, including Hans, can understand why some cannot always do for themselves. js
Stacy
yes, he was very specific on the mundane request, he used that word in this thread and it was quoted too.
All of us are happy to help, and completely understand questions… it’s just kind of tiring when someone does not put any effort forth to use this giant database, and the internet to check FIRST…
That’s the only real point…
So, maybe a meeting of the minds here? That would be great.
Greg
Agreed^^^^
There have been many times on forums here and other places, where questions have been asked in good faith about electrical wiring, of model railroads.
The person asking the question, just in the way the question was asked, gave every indication, and sometimes admitted, that they didn’t have a clue about “Electricity” in general.
Right at that point, trying to answer any question on the subject was doomed to failure.
The obvious answer right at the start, was to suggest that the person asking the question(s) should purchase one of the many books about wiring a model railroad, and to read it cover to cover, where the questioner, could learn the very basics of electricity, and how it applies to an electric motor, on a model railroad. Not a mind boggling feat, and a good bit of guidance.
Instead, some dear soul tries to tell the questioner how to solve the problem, on the forum, and totally confuses the questioner, because the basics were not known.
…even to the point of chastising the person for suggesting such a move, because, "The book only applies to HO gauge/scale.
Electricity doesn’t care about scale or gauge, in its basic form.
The Questioner was led astray and the forum failed him/her…just because someone thought that the question could just be answered on the forum…
Books, and basic research are still the basis for a successful experience in any hobby. A combination of the resources of the internet, and the printed media are a great team.
Having that old fashioned book called “How to wire your model railroad” (There are others) by your side, can solve so many problems…you just have to know how to read…
Fred
Yes why bother conversing with others and getting some information from them when one can just pop off to the local library and learn everything there is about electricity from A to Z on their own.
I mean really.
Good one Padre! 
I’m very grateful that my parents gave my a live steam stationary engine at the age of six, an electric model train at seven and an electrical experimenter’s set at eight. That good stuff set me off on the path. In Grade 3 I had a teacher who was a train nut, as a quasi basic physics project we got to build model railway transformers — figure out the step down ratio, do the windings, insulation, the whole shebang.
Long live teachers who work outside the box and inspire students!
Oh, on that “getting it” problem. Part of a tool makers’ apprenticeship were two semesters of basic electrics … taught by a professor from Zürich’s University. His approach was: you get it or forget it!
Some people’s grades took a major hit - one could call it an electrical shock. There were a few very entertaining episodes, but I won’t go into detail or people will say “now, now, not nice, not nice”.
I just wish the people doing research for TV history documentaries would do at least the most basic research. Accuracy seems to be a thing most lack.
Recently there was a quite long and much touted documentary called D-Day. It was certainly a most expensive effort to put on. I learned a lot.
For example did you know London was bombed by formations of “German” 4 engined B-17s? They showed this at least three different times. Also in addition to Me109 and Me110 fighters they also had P-51s. And I’m still baffled at how the allies were able to repel those mighty M-48/M-60 battle tanks the Germans had. In the Philippines in 1941 the US troops already had the pot type helmets instead of the WWI type. There were a number of other rather glaring errors too throughout the presentation. Yep I dun lurned a lot I did.
You would think with the wide availability of film and video available nowadays they could at least find file footage of the correct weaponry used. An occasional blooper I could forgive but the errors were so numerous and obvious I can only conclude the editors were either completely ignorant of the subject or they just didn’t care.
I identify with Fred’s post, electronics is one of my formal training areas, besides physics.
I cannot blame people at all for wanting a simple way to pick a resistor for an LED, it seems such a simple device.
BUT getting someone without a basic understanding of V=IR (and V and I and R themselves) to even USE an LED calculator, much less use V=IR themselves is really tough.
And then, some know-it-all says “Oh I always use a 470 ohm resistor”, then the poor guy latches on to this for his simple answer he wants so desperately.
Unfortunately, the desire for a simple answer, or to not spend a bit of time learning the fundamentals usually results in burned out components, as the guy who recommended the 470 ohm resistor neglected to state that he uses 14.4 volt batteries, and the guy who needs help is using 24 volts. Oh, and don’t even think about the wattage… of course until the resistor gets so hot it melts plastic.
There’s always going to be this dilemma, “just give me the answer, I don’t really want to understand it”…
And someone to give bad advice… 
Greg
I would challenge anyone to read a current history book (if they use one) in our high schools on the subject of the “Vietnam Conflict” and ask yourself “Is this the same conflict we watched on TV on the news?”
@Richard - I no longer believe it is lack of research, ignorance, sloppy reporting or any of those possible oopses, but rather a deliberate effort to ‘re-write’ history in a different connotation. I even see it here locally on news stories where I am cognizant of the actual events and the news presents a completely different account.
Truth is not always pretty and I guess there are those in power that feel "we can’t handle the truth’.
Bob C.
I’m going to tread lightly here, because we are getting close to politics, which is not to be discussed, but this is not unusual in any country in my opinion… I don’t like it either, so I work hard to “find the truth”, rather than take everything at face value initially.
But… back to trains… right?
Regards, Greg
More on topic here. Computers were never designed to take the place of the human brain. Which is, by all accounts, the most unique and complicated computer ever created.
People, in general, have become so attached to these machines that they have become impersonal and
highly dependent upon them.
As for this forum, the people in it and the topics, I believe it is more important to be human towards one another and not look down on others simply because they do not know something or perhaps made an error. I also believe that some make really large assumptions about others. Such leaps in judgment are
wrong period.
This is why I say the PC enables some to be so impersonal as to become bullies when dealing with others on line.
My .02