David Maynard said:
Dan, Small Scale Railway used to make HO sound boards, they even had a whistle and bell that would randomly kick in. But they quit making boards a while back. I want a bit more then just chuff on my locomotives.
I hear you Dave and have been there, done that, as they say. I can appreciate the sounds that come out of high end sound systems. Perhaps someday, I will return to more elaborate sounds for my railway.
What with the price of the Ardrino single board computer, I don’t see why an inexpensive sound board couldn’t be built with one. My computer skills have atrophied over the years, and I am not up on all the new stuff, but with a little programming, and some prerecorded bells and whistles, why couldn’t a decent sound board be put together for less then $230?
Yup, it’s that time again. Time for me to take my meds and go to bed.
Greg said
“Mike, I have manufacturing experience, but do not know the microprocessor they are using, nor the bit rate or memory size, so difficult to make the real assessment.”
Greg , I understand what you are getting at , but as you know , overheads are one of the biggest factors controlling price .
To go into detail would cause a bit of eye glazing , but what people fail to see are the costs of manpower such as —
Draughtsmen , Buyers , Progress Chasers , Planning , Forward Cover , Record Keeping , Market Research , After Sale Support (including Modification and recording of that) , Advertising , Free Lunches for Potential Customers , Free Models for Magazines to Assess , Prototype Research and Recording and more . Tool makers and associated machinery cost a packet .
Then there’s Maintenance of Buildings , Electric Bills ------I think this is getting boring already so suffice it to say that Overheads come out at 200% or more----the maintenance of a clean room alone comes out at colossal rates .
Then you have to consider profit . And Insurance against liitle Jimmy hurting his finger on a model and suing the ass off the company .
So , as I said , is there a professional Costing Engineer here ?
Part of my previous life was taken up seeing that manufacturers don’t over-egg the pudding when designing and building Military Radars ; I learned a lot about hidden costs .
Some of you may say “we know all that” , but possibly find it an inconvenient truth .
You may even think some of the above items a bit flippant , but add them all up and you may get some idea of why and how of costs come about .
And bear in mind , the above does not cover everything .
Here’s a little exercise for you to think on , how much would it cost to send two engineers for a week to survey a simple railway wagon and produce satisfactory data to enable further work toward production ?
Just base it on your salary , travel expenses and living allowance (food and hotel).
Mike
David Maynard said:
What with the price of the Ardrino single board computer, I don’t see why an inexpensive sound board couldn’t be built with one. My computer skills have atrophied over the years, and I am not up on all the new stuff, but with a little programming, and some prerecorded bells and whistles, why couldn’t a decent sound board be put together for less then $230?
Yup, it’s that time again. Time for me to take my meds and go to bed.
I have one of those boards that I purchased to experiment with. I just need to get my head wrapped around the whole thing. I’m a nuts and bolts man and anything to do with electronics needs a clear mind.
Yes Mike:
“Greg , I understand what you are getting at , but as you know , overheads are one of the biggest factors controlling price .”
Sigh… Of course I know this, but you are sort of chastising me for figuring the raw cost…
Normally, companies have a pretty much rule of thumb multiplier, and often the raw parts cost is a 5x multiplier. (each company has it’s own rule of thumb, but I’m using this that we used at a small company called Hewlett Packard)
So, if this is true, a parts cost of $10 would give you an approximate selling price of $50, while a cost of $15 would net you $75, a BIG difference in the final price.
So, we who do this for a living start at the beginning, since everything is built on that beginning.
Anyway, without knowing these particulars, then all we have is a thread of wild guesses on mfg cost and true cost to sell… oops… what do you know?
Here we are, flailing around in wild speculation about the true added cost. By the way, I’ve actually worked in a number of companies where we manufactured consumer items, based on microprocessors. If you have the same pedigree, that’s great, but I think you sell trains.
At least you said so in the Piko R7 switch thread.
Greg Elmassian
also Intel corp, Unisys, Uniden, Nippondenso/Denso
Greg , if you want to be clever , try reading the name of the bloke you mention in the R7 thread .
Mike (with a degree in electro mechanical design and 50years of applying it )
Greg,
Don’t worry about it, just remember the rejoinder I mentioned in this post.
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22329/search/view/post_id/259205
And now you have both had chance to think , I post things for everyone here to learn from , I was not addressing you personally . Either of you . Everyone .
God almighty , talk about "and a child shall lead them "
Mike
Come on Hans , you’re slipping .
7 minutes and you haven’t replied .
I can just imagine you feverishly burning your fingertips off with the speed of some of your blocking posts .
It’s a pity you didn’t work as hard in the Swiss Army instead of skiving off on invented medical grounds .
Mike
Oh gee kids, are we going to start that again?
Why do we have to devolve into personal insults? Can’t we just disagree without personally insulting each other?
David Maynard said:
Oh gee kids, are we going to start that again?
Why do we have to devolve into personal insults? Can’t we just disagree without personally insulting each other?
I have no idea how calculating any items manufacturing cost has any bearing on the consumer. The consumer will either buy according to his need and pocket book or he won’t. All the rest is of little interest to the consumer, least of all how much each step in the manufacturing process contributes to the selling price.
All the rest is smoke and mirrors, diversions, distraction to get one more thread off topic and derailed. Apparently it’s great fun. As that old saying from W.C.Fields goes: " If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."
According to that “logic” manufacturers should make a loss in order to sell things .
I gave the breakdown so that people on this site not blessed with the experience of costing can get some idea of why our hobby costs are apparently caused by ripping off .
As usual , I was trying to help people understand and it gets (deliberately?) misconstrued . I rarely aim my comments at a particular person (unless of course they are being obtuse) and cannot understand why some of you persist in thinking you are so bloody important that I am talking to you personally .
David , I am sorry if my comment offended you . Perhaps if I got more support from the generally pleasant people on here I would not be provoked into telling a few home truths .
Remember (everyone), it takes two people (or more when bullying is involved) to make an argument .
And thanks to all those who sent emails of support .
In the meantime , enjoy your trains (everyone)
Mike the Leper
PS anyone on here responsible for sending those jokes about my son’s cancer can rot in hell
Mike Morgan said:
PS anyone on here responsible for sending those jokes about my son’s cancer can rot in hell
Bloody hell…that’s not on… think their names should be made public on here…
No Ross , they are anonymous , and go way back to when I was hounded off another site .
I have an idea who it is by the wording , but it does no good because the moron uses Internet Cafe computers----I did try tracing , but came up stumped .
And just to add to the misery , my son has just been told that the nerve damage caused by chemotherapy is incurable ; he saw one of the country’s top neurologists because he had taken part in cancer treatment trials; the cancer seems to have gone , but at a price .
My ever cheerful modelling mate now has to face a new life of being unemployable . So if I get ratty occasionally , now you all know why .
Mike
PS Ross , many thanks for your concern , it helps .
This bickering is why I stayed away from this site for a good while and why I quit “My Large Scale” forum a few years ago.