Large Scale Central

Setting up waybills

Operations
#15

Bob C - I don’t think that you can have too many cars UNLESS you have so many that there is no space left to make moves. That happened to me and prompted my building the large fiddle yard shelving in my basement. Once I had used the new yard to clear some tracks, things began to move again. My remaining problem is that it only moves a the same few cars each session. Probably because I don’t have valid destinations. I learned just recently that yards don’t change a load status which is why I need to re-think the whole game.

Bruce has had a lot of experience running JMRI Ops, so he’s probably right that I need to go in and tickle the system to get stuff moving again. I’m sure that will happen before spring. I’m having too much fun right now doing loco conversions.

One great feature of JMRI is the detailed build report. If you have the patience to comb through every step, you will find out why it is, or isn’t moving each car.

#16

Digging about I ran across this article in Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine on a free switch list generator. I know nothing about it, just thought being as BD mentioned an XL spread sheet as a possibility I would share the link https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/27714

#17

…I know that with computers, and all these programs available, a person can get in so deep that just the programming, becomes “The hobby”, before you know it. Sometimes it might pay to go back to “Keep-it-simple-stupid”…

Of course, in some cases, as in a club layout, too many cars, or one heck of a lot of them, makes a computer, and program, a needed tool.

But; if you have less than 40-50 cars, and a simple typewriter/computer/printer, you can go back to the “Old fashioned” four destination/sided waybill, with matching car cards.

Like the real railroad; generating a waybill determines the type/style of car needed for the load. It at the same time, determines four connecting destinations for the chosen car, before returning the car to a designated terminal, as an empty car.

I’ll admit that the newer “Train order” type computer produced sheets do make the preparation, much less work, especially where we are dealing with 175 cars each Saturday morning, where we have to put them out at predetermined locations, and carrying around 10-20 car cards bearing waybills is not very desirable for any of the operators. You also would need to have holders at every yard/industry for delivered cars, and cars to be picked up, or moved.

I guess having experienced about a half dozen variations of “Railroad Paperwork” ideas, for operating model railroads; the most important fear to avoid; is again…don’t turn FUN into a major paperwork/computer quagmire…KISS…

If anyone wants to visit (When we again start operations), please come out and join us as we VERY successfully enjoy operating, on the IPP&W/RP&M Railroads. You might just enjoy a rather simple operation, with a great many cars.

Fred Mills

#18

Digging this thread back up. I’ve been working a bunch on this. The Car Cards part of Car Cards / Waybills is easy. A bunch of car data and a picture of each one, and a bit of templating in Google Sheets gets you them pretty quickly.

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WayBills, on the other hand, had me stumped for a while. I mean, I understand them, but I wanted a way to make them without a lot of manual work. So I exported out my car list from JMRI and brought it into Google Sheets. I found another set of Google Sheets for a waybill layout I liked, and I spent a couple of days doing lookups and all that, and writing some randomizing code. I can generate a page of 5, four-position waybills, with randomized locations, based on car type.

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Waiting on the pockets to show up for the car cards. Once I have a couple hundred waybills set up, I’ll give these a try out on the layout.

1 Like
#19

Exactly why you and Ken should never have partnered up during operations!

1 Like
#20

Everything but refrigerator cars done.

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#21

Pockets showed up today. Have about half the car cards done. I’ll be able to test this out tomorrow.

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EDIT: Finished all the cards I have. Went outside for a while, sorting cards to where the cars currently are, and found that I dont have cards for six cars (they wernt in JRMI either) So, brought those cars in to get photographed and make up some cards.

#22

Are you planning to change to car cards for TrainOps? I’ve pretty much given up on JMRI and have been hand writing switch lists.

#23

I think so? Even with just two trains running, I end up with either over-capacity sidings, or industries that just never get served. Its frustrating.

I think with car cards, I can have a ‘merchandise train’ that serves all the warehouses along the route, or the trains will be “serve these industries over this route”, that kind of thing.

#24

And you guys wonder why anyone would want to run Amtrak roundy round again and again?

#25

One thing Stan is trying to implement is yardmaster/agent positions. while this is a good idea and i tried out during trainopps, I didn’t get a good enough head start to do the agent position much good, but with practice will get better. the point of the agent is to scope out the industries served buy the train, and limit train length to account for pickups and set-outs along the route.

Al P.

#26

Exactly my experience. I’ve tried tweaking, changing routes and all manner of things and it never gets any better.

#27

You could just say that your OPERATING/modeling Canadian Railroads circa August 24, 2024. Perhaps title the waybill “Project 24 2024”.

Just a thought that might help ya’ out ?

#28

First test-run of Car Cards and Waybills was a reasonable success. I did a one-town merchandiser train from Burke Yard to Williamsport and back, only servicing the warehouse, interchange, and Brough-Kenn machinery. Only had 4 cars to pick up at Burke.

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So after digging those out, the train is ready to go and sets off.

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Arriving at Williamsport, we only find two boxcars going our way.

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So a bit of digging those two out, with limited space at the interchange made it interesting.

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Then I had to run around the rest of the train and push the two gondolas into the interchange. All the updated trackwork here worked flawlessly.

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Then it was time to reassemble the train and head back home to Burke.

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All in all, it was pretty easy. I can see how I have to tweak some of the cards randomness, but overall I’m pretty happy.

#29

Having experienced just about every form of “Operation Paperwork” going back to the ancient paper clip on a four sided card…and ending up with the now old "RailOps program; Our use of that RailOps Program sure serves us well to this day.
Many of the Southern “Invaders” back in the day, experienced great Operations on the IPP&W, during those happy Invasions.
Today we try to keep the paperwork simple with just “Train Orders” for each train, and start-up lists to determine where the cars are to be located on the railroad on each of our continuing Weekly Saturday operations. Nothing to carry around but a clip board with a sheet of paper. No need to store car cards in racks at each station…but…
I do admire, and support those that continuously look for “Supposedly better methods”…so, PLEASE don’t get me wrong…
Operations can be fun, and continuously attract new friends/members to the group…then again, there is a balance, that is most important…
TOO MUCH, and TOO CLOSE to Prototype Operations can drive people away in frustration…
RailOps may not be supported as a program, but it still can work well.
This is coming from our group that OPERATES Every Saturday Morning, putting out at least 250 pieces of rolling stock, before each operation can start. In the locations where they must be to start…all in about 30-45 minutes, then putting it all away after about 3-4 hours of operation, in an order that it can be put back out the following Saturday, in order that the continuing operations will resume.
We have been doing this for over 20 years, with an average of about 20 operators/FRIENDS…each week.
We are ALWAYS looking for NEW IDEAS, so we are NOT in any way close minded to a POSITIVE change for the better.
As always, WE WELCOME our Friends and LSC people, to come and experience an Operation here, in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada…just drop a line, and let us know when you can drop in…Please.
See "Mike’s Railroad Blogs, on the link at: www.ovgrs.ca

#30

That is all that matters!

Happiness often gets overlooked or pushed aside and for what? My boy and I have been using the saying “Shes looking good Vern” for many years now and it always makes us smile!

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#31

Hi Bob

Did you manage to set up your 4 cycle waybill system?

Regards Daryl

#32

Hey Daryl
I ran another test train a few days after my initial one. They work well, with a few tweaks. The Google Sheets that I have aren’t perfect, but they do the grunt of the work.

1 Like
#33

Hi Bob

A friend of mine here in Australia wrote an excellent article for setting up and balancing the 4 waybill system.

I could email you a copy if you like.

Regards Daryl

#34

I’d like to see that article as well.