Steve this is the same board that George S. talks about fixing for dcc along time ago has pic. of what has to be done. This will help you with what Don was saying. http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips8/sd45_tips.html
Richard
not saying this is what you have to do to your board.
I’ve contacted Navin, but not heard back yet.
I’m guessing it’s the stupid “microprocessor used as a voltage regulator” situation…
Greg
Edit:
I re-read George’s page, and see it has some old and not updated information. Nothing really important unless you are rebuilding the motor block. Funny he did not discover that the real reason for the single ball bearing riding on the axle is because the ball bearings on the axle are NOT conductive. Maybe they were moons ago, perhaps closer to the year 2000…
OK, just got a call.
Since I did not buy a SD45 until about “GenerationNext” I was unaware of these internal issues on this particular loco, but very similar to the RS-3 and the Mikado. Issues do not exist with Dash 9 or E8.
There are 3 issues:
battery/track switch does NOT disconnect from the track pickups in ANY position (this is same for most of the steamers, like Pacific, Mikado, etc.)
“Regulator” for lights is actually a microprocessor, and it does NOT like PWM, and is also erratic in operation in low voltages. Newer units and newer model diesels use a normal 3 terminal linear regulator.
Smoke unit wired with lighting power, so you are running the smoker, which in combination with lights and motor can overload the Revo. I believe you can turn smoke switch off to avoid this.
All of this was corrected in later versions of main board, but MANY people buy a “NEW” SD-45 which is really new old stock, so WHEN you buy it has nothing to do with the date of manufacture.
Unless you are pretty electronically inclined, I’d either buy the updated boards from Navin, or send in your board for him to modify.
Regards, Greg
I inderstood Navin to san that the issues were only with the SD 45. Do I now understand that the Pacific, the Mikado, the RS3, and presumably the mallet also have the problem, and cannot use the REVO?
No, that is not what you want to understand.
You should check EVERY Aristo loco’s wiring anyway… been giving that advice for about 10 years, but 10 years ago I was the “bad guy” bringing these points forwards.
So for point #1 you need to check that there is no connection between the either battery terminal and any wheel when the switch is in battery.
For point #2, very few locos have this issue, and as I stated “erratic”, not “cannot use Revo”
For point #3, this is “cured” by turning the smoke switch off.
Also for point #3, I have met very few battery guys that try to run smoke, since the smoke unit can draw as much power as the motor.
Do these clarifications help? (really only restating my original points)
Greg
Yes, Greg, your second attempt was much more clear. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
I had the smoker off, so I guess my problem was either 1 or 2.
Point 2. doesn’t seem to be the issue, as it was battery power, not PWM.
Might be point 1. as it was the 2000 board, despite being a 2008 built loco.
Was trying to be complete!
I do try!
Greg
Greg mentions the Pacific and others because the switch for track/battery power is known to be wired wrong in those units. One doesn’t want their battery’s electrons wandering out onto the track and causing issues.
Now, if I could just get the drivers on my mallet to stay in quarter, or even on the axle, but that was never a problem, was it?
Did I just say that out loud? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)
Hah, publishing that problem on my web site got me banned forever from the Aristo forum. But, it never happened did it?
I have found that lapping the axle to the wheel, getting it really clean, replacing the cheap screw with a stainless one and tightening it has fixed it for me.
I have this pipe dream about getting Barry Olsen to come up with a fix, but it will be tough, probably make new axles and then machine the wheels for an insert.
Greg
I have one wheel whose central hole is too big. It sits too far in on the axel for the screw to have a prayer of clinching it up. Even if I could get it tight to the axel, the b to b would be too short. Unfortunately, I didn’t discover this until after Aristo tanked.
I would either need a new driver, or an insert. And that’s just the worst one.
But, there is no problem, is there?
Steve any updates on the SD45
Richard
Steve Featherkile said:
I have one wheel whose central hole is too big. It sits too far in on the axel for the screw to have a prayer of clinching it up. Even if I could get it tight to the axel, the b to b would be too short. Unfortunately, I didn’t discover this until after Aristo tanked.
I would either need a new driver, or an insert. And that’s just the worst one.
But, there is no problem, is there?
If you can grind a steel rod to match the bore in the wheel, you can make inserts…
John Caughey said:
Steve Featherkile said:
I have one wheel whose central hole is too big. It sits too far in on the axel for the screw to have a prayer of clinching it up. Even if I could get it tight to the axel, the b to b would be too short. Unfortunately, I didn’t discover this until after Aristo tanked.
I would either need a new driver, or an insert. And that’s just the worst one.
But, there is no problem, is there?
If you can grind a steel rod to match the bore in the wheel, you can make inserts…
(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
Steve Featherkile said:
John Caughey said:
Steve Featherkile said:
I have one wheel whose central hole is too big. It sits too far in on the axel for the screw to have a prayer of clinching it up. Even if I could get it tight to the axel, the b to b would be too short. Unfortunately, I didn’t discover this until after Aristo tanked.
I would either need a new driver, or an insert. And that’s just the worst one.
But, there is no problem, is there?
If you can grind a steel rod to match the bore in the wheel, you can make inserts…
(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
The insert bushing can be made from a soft metal. Hammered through thick leather over sand, change a washer into a cone…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif) practice.
Or get fancy and make a wooden die …
John, I know you are trying to be helpful.
Axles are tapered
Holes in wheels are tapered
Tapers do NOT match, off by 1 degree
And it gets worse from there.
A conical shim would help the spacing problem, but realize that there is no way to set the back to back gauge.
Also, the problem with slippage is definitely not helped by adding another layer of metal between the wheel and the axle.
And it still gets worse from there.
The right solution is to somehow have an adjustable gauge and a wheel that won’t slip on the axle… Aristo actually manufactured something in their last locos, referred to as the “D cut wheels”… if you got these you could put washers in to widen the back to back.
This still does not address the quartering problem with steamers
And it still gets worse…
Not a simple problem to solve.
Greg
p.s. if you are interested, I have a page where I go through most of the problems with this motor block. It is the reason I was banned from the Aristo forum by Lewis Polk…
https://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=215&Itemid=248
The voice of reason downed out again.
Thickness of shim is the way to adjust B2B. Make it sticky w/ knurling or engraving cross hatching …
Lap the holes the old fashioned way with mandrels and ruby/ diamond powders. Reshape the holes …
Or give up
Yep, as I said conical shim would let you space out. I have used 0.005" brass, but did not have way to knurl or cross hatch…
I have lapped the wheels to the axles with a modicum of success, used medium grit valve grinding compound. It often makes the back to back worse though.
You have a problem though if you start out over gauge. Lapping is not the answer, you need to machine off some of the back of the axle, thus requiring complete disassembly of the block and part of the gearbox.
Better way to do this (besides reading my web site ha ha!) is to lap wheel to axle, and leave surface a bit rough, get a stainless screw and torque it down (after checking that your lock washer and screw are bearing on the recess in the wheel, not on the end of the axle.
Then you put a shim between the axle and the gear it screws to. This is what I have done. I have a supply of these shims.
The issues are always 1. does the person that needs this have the mechanical ability, and 2. the best solution requires complete disassembly of the motor block, which most people don’t want to do.
I might be tempted to try to knurl the shim stock, but the work to make the conical shim was a pain in the butt… and if you get the shim wrong the wheels don’t run true. Any suggestions John?
Regards, Greg
p.s. shut up Maynard! I give a complete explanation with 10 yrs of experience and you flap your pie hole. I see why rooster has that on his avatar.
